Movie Size

[audi]

i have a problem when i encode my movies with gordian knot. they never come out to 1400 megs like i need them to, they always come out smaller like 1200 or even 964 i figured they just reached there maximum quality so i raise the audio bitrate to like 256 and then encoded it over again and it came out even smaller. is there same audio bitrate that you use all the time or what resolution do you use. any ideas would be very helpful

[khp]

Originally posted by audi
i have a problem when i encode my movies with gordian knot. they never come out to 1400 megs like i need them to, they always come out smaller like 1200 or even 964 i figured they just reached there maximum quality


That is most probably the case.

Originally posted by audi

so i raise the audio bitrate to like 256 and then encoded it over again and it came out even smaller.


OK, that is obviously not supposed to happen. Exactly what filesizes are we talking about here ?.Did you the 'Re-calculate bitrate if needed' option ?, did you keep all other settings exactly the same ?. especially the resizeing method can impact the filesize quite a bit.

Originally posted by audi

what resolution do you use. any ideas would be very helpful

I usually use a resolution between 704*x and 640*x. Usually I aim for a bits per pixel value of 0.20.

[audi]

yes i use recalculate bit rate if needed , what resizeing method are you talking about ?

[audi]

for instance i just finished encoding a movie ment for 2 cds 1200brate for the video and 192 for the audio and i have seen several guides and follow every thing they have done, i used 640* and it was .19. there is nothing left to do . Have Any Idea ?

[khp]

Originally posted by audi
yes i use recalculate bit rate if needed , what resizeing method are you talking about ?

See attactment

[khp]

Originally posted by audi
for instance i just finished encoding a movie ment for 2 cds 1200brate for the video and 192 for the audio and i have seen several guides and follow every thing they have done, i used 640* and it was .19. there is nothing left to do . Have Any Idea ?

Not really, unless there are any obvious quality problems there is not much point spending any time on it. But if you feel like going the extra mile, I have script that will check the quality of a divx5 encoding. Which is posted in this thread.

http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9446

[audi]

what is the best resize filter cause i have seen guides that say sharp is the best and also that neutral is the best and now in the above post he is using soft. what is the difference and which is best to use and for what (1 cd or 2 cds).

[khp]

Sharp bicubic will produce the best image quality, before compression.

Unfortunatly the image needs to be compressed, and images resized with sharp bicubic is harder to compress. Which means that the codec has to use a lower quality setting to reach the same filesize.

But With Divx5 I would always recommend using Sharp bicubic. And especially in your case, where you are already encoding at maximum quality.

[audi]

ok im out of ideas here, i just ripped vanilla sky, wanted it to be 2 cds made the audio 192kbit and the video came out to be 1055 kbits compression was .24 and 70% and for the resizing filter i used sharp and it still came out below 1400 megs. is there anything im missing. any help would be great .

[khp]

As I explained in the thread I linked to, you can make sure you are at maximum quality, by running a quality based encoding at 100% in virtualdub, or running my script on the analyse.log file.

I have done vanilla sky as a 2 CD rip (1300MB) at 704*400 with 160kbs audio, and that worked out almost perfect..

[audi]

ok i got your perl scrip and the perl active stat thing, when i run it it doenst do anything and it doesnt create a new file. what file do i run it on and when was i suppose to create that file

[audi]

and which file do you want me to post in this forum

[khp]

As I explained in the post that contains the script, the analyse.pl script must be placed in the same folder as the file named analyse.log created by the second pass of the divx5 encoder. If this is the case and the perl interpreter is properly installed, it should be enough to double click the analyse.pl file, this will create a file called second_pass_stats.log.

Alternativly the script can also be executed from a commandline prompt. using a command like

perl C:\analyse.pl C:\GetCarter\analyse.log

Assuming that analyse.pl is located in C:\ and analyse.log is located in C:\GetCater\.
This will create the file C:\second_pass_stats.log
This should also give you a meaningfull error message if something isn't setup right.

[audi]

do you have a recommended guide that i could follow cause i think im missing a big step. or maybe can i send you screenshots of my set up because i would really like to get this fixed . ohhh also thnx khp for all your help

[khp]

Originally posted by audi
do you have a recommended guide that i could follow cause i think im missing a big step. or maybe can i send you screenshots of my set up because i would really like to get this fixed . ohhh also thnx khp for all your help

I like doom9's divx5 guide, but UncasMS's guide is also perfectly OK.

You can post your *_GKnot.log file, from one of your suspect encodings. If anything major goes wrong it should be visible in the log file.

[audi]

here is the stat file, please check it out . it is from another movie that i am having that same problem with

[khp]

That looks pretty much perfect. The file is very very close to the maximum possible quality.

In short nothing more can be done. Short of disabling the use of B-frames, which would probably begin to give you a slightly better quality, at a file size increase of 15-20%.

[audi]

so back to my basic question why when i try to make a 2 cd rip is it coming out to like 900 megs and lower.

[khp]

Originally posted by audi
so back to my basic question why when i try to make a 2 cd rip is it coming out to like 900 megs and lower.

It's probably the same problem. In such cases I would probably go for a 1 CD rip (perhaps at a slightly lower res). If maximum quality quals 900 MB, a 700 MB rip using the same settings, will also look pretty good.

[audi]

im trying to rip vanilla sky and it says on 2 cds the video will 1100 kbits and on one cd it will be 397 kbit and that is really low . there must be something that im missing . 1100 cant be its maximum quality . can you think of anything more ?

[audi]

there is a quick overview of the steps i go through

1. use dvd2avi to prepare the vob
2. open that dvd2avi in gordian select 2 cds and 192 audio rate
3. make the resolution to be close to .22 and 60% in this case it comes to 72% .22
4. i view it resized set the credits
5. i choose save and encode use sharp bicubic, trim both
6. i then use pro features and psychovisual enh normal

thats basically it if there is anything that i missing please let me know

[audi]

to finsih up under the audio tap i use custom parameters. Basiccally i follow the guides that i have seen in this forum exactly.

[khp]

Originally posted by audi
im trying to rip vanilla sky and it says on 2 cds the video will 1100 kbits and on one cd it will be 397 kbit and that is really low . there must be something that im missing . 1100 cant be its maximum quality . can you think of anything more ?

Depending on the resolution 1100 kbps could very well be the maximum quality. But I have already told you the settings I used for VanillaSky.

And for a one CD rip I would of course use 128 kbps audio to get some more video bitrate. Well OK for one CD rips I usually use the method described in this thread

http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=49420

To get an extra 100 MB

[audi]

so as a final thought the only way i can get a full sized rip is to use virtual dup manually.

[khp]

I don't really see the point of doing that.

If all you do, is load the avs file created by GKnot into virtualdub and doing a qualti based encoding @100, then all you will gain is a few MB, assuming that the avi file created by GKnot is near maximum quality.

And if you use some other method for getting the DVD into virtualdub, any filesize increase will be caused by a lower quality source than the one supplied by GKnot.

[audi]

so we decided that i havent reached maximum quality then why is it cutting my file size down from 1400 megs (2 cds) to 984 and 919. do i have to just keep raising my resolution or something. why are my movies coming out to 1400 megs if im not at maximum quality. also i tried raising the audio rate way up and it didnt change the file size. is it a problem with divx or is there just an option or something im missing. i tried reinstalling everything.

[khp]

Originally posted by audi
so we decided that i havent reached maximum quality then why is it cutting my file size down from 1400 megs (2 cds) to 984 and 919.

Then there would be two possible explanations. Either you don't have divx5 properly installed in which case GKnot will produce more or less random results. But this is extremely unlikely because you can encode with divx5 in virtualdub. So divx5 must be properly installled on your system. The other option would be that you have somehow misconfigured GKnot so that it miscalculates the bitrate, this is also quite unlikely, and would be obvious by looking at the *_gknot.log file, which I have already asked you to post.

Originally posted by audi

do i have to just keep raising my resolution or something.

If we assume that you have reached maximum quality: yes, but there really isn't much point in going over 704*x.
If we assume that you haven't reached maximum quality: no then the problem must be something else.

Originally posted by audi

why are my movies coming out to 1400 megs if im not at maximum quality.

I'am sorry I can't make any sense of this statement.

Originally posted by audi

also i tried raising the audio rate way up and it didnt change the file size. is it a problem with divx or is there just an option or something im missing. i tried reinstalling everything.

What I would suspect, is that GKnot desided to use different resizeing methods for the two encodings, and this caused the video to max out at diffrent bitrates, and that made up for the diffrent audio bitrates. GKnot will deside what resizing method to use based on the BPP value, so when you change the audio bitrate GKnot may have desided to change the resizing method.
But feel free to post your *_GKnot.log file, that way we can see if GKnot is playing any tricks on you.

[audi]

i cant post my log file it says its too big then i zipped it and it still is too big

[khp]

Originally posted by audi
i cant post my log file it says its too big then i zipped it and it still is too big

You are looking at the wrong logfile. The *_gknot.log file is nomore than a few KB.

[audi]

ohh oops ok got it

[audi]

i realize that i used the vanilla sky sound for the game but can you notice any other problems

[khp]

You have set GKnot to expect that 181203 KB will be used by you for external files, What are you using that for ?.

Other than that everything looks perfectly normal.

According to the log GKnot encodes the main movie at 1217 kbps, which means that we should expect the audio- and credits-less avi file name gameproj_movie.avi, to be something like 1.03 GB if the file does not hit maximum quality before that. Which I would not think unlikely at a resolution of only 576*416.

[audi]

yeah that movie came out to be about 1.03 gigs how do i get it to be 1400 megs

[audi]

also what do you mean i have set it to expect 181203 kb can you explain that a little more, it may be my problem

[khp]

Originally posted by audi
yeah that movie came out to be about 1.03 gigs how do i get it to be 1400 megs

Thats just the movie without audio and endcredits. Adding audio and credits adds about 200 MB.
The movie with audio and video should be located in gameproj.avi



also what do you mean i have set it to expect 181203 kb can you explain that a little more, it may be my problem


That seem very likely. See attachment.
The four boxes I have encircled, control how much data GKnot expect to use for everything except video.

The audio A and Audio B boxes account for the main and (optional) secondary audio tracks. The files box is for letting GKnot know that you need some extra space on the CDs for external files. I usually set them for 3-5 MB to account for external subtitles. But if you don't use anything like that, it should be set to 0. Finally there is the AVI overhead box, which control how much space to allow for AVI file overhead, which should be set to reflect your audio selection. So if you us a Single mp3 streams it should be set to 1x vbr MP3 audio.

[audi]

thats weird cause with the audio and video together came out to 1.03gigs, also you set you audio rate to 448, normally i use 160? And one last thing i should have calcualte frame overhead un-checked right ?

[khp]

Originally posted by audi
thats weird cause with the audio and video together came out to 1.03gigs,


Then you must have hit maximum quality.

Originally posted by audi

also you set you audio rate to 448, normally i use 160?


Never mind, I was just throwing around some numbers.

Originally posted by audi

And one last thing i should have calcualte frame overhead un-checked right ?

No, that should be kept checked. For an average movie, having a single vbr MP3 stream account for about 10-12 MB of overhead, which left unchecked will lead to oversized files if you don't hit the maximum possible quality.

[audi]

but in the log file i sent you you said that i didnt reach maximum quality, and if i did hit maximum quality then wouldnt i be able to raise the audio rate alot and or raise the resolution in order to get a file size of 1400 megs

[khp]

Originally posted by audi
but in the log file i sent you you said that i didnt reach maximum quality, and if i did hit maximum quality then wouldnt i be able to raise the audio rate alot and or raise the resolution in order to get a file size of 1400 megs

It didn't hit but it was very very close. Maximum quality would probably be 5-10 MB lager. So maximum quality is holding you back.

The Divx5 encoder starts behaving a bit strangely near maximum quality, so if you aim slightly over maximum quality, it will come out slightly lower than maximum quality.

[audi]

so rasing the sound quality and or the resolution enough should give me a file size of 1400 megs right ?

[khp]

Originally posted by audi
so rasing the sound quality and or the resolution enough should give me a file size of 1400 megs right ?

Yes

[audi]

didnt you say you were able to encode vanilla sky just fine. how did you do it cause that is one of the movies giving me trouble

[khp]

Originally posted by audi
didnt you say you were able to encode vanilla sky just fine. how did you do it cause that is one of the movies giving me trouble

I was using 704*400 and I think 160 kbps vbr mp3 audio, with a target filesize of 1295 MB (2*650 - 5) and it came out about 3 MB undersize. But I was using a PAL version, so you might get different results when using a NTSC version.

[audi]

i used your resoltion 704 x 384 and the compressibility came out to .162 and 48.8 % is this bad ? and what do you normally to get

[khp]

Originally posted by audi
i used your resoltion 704 x 384 and the compressibility came out to .162 and 48.8 % is this bad ? and what do you normally to get

I have never put much faith in compressability test numbers, it's been my experience that the feature is a bit buggy. 0.16 bpp is a bit low, but vanilla sky does not contain much action, and with B-frames and GMC enabled it should be within resonable limits.

If I want to know how well a movie compresses I'll do a manual check using quality based encoding @ 100% in virtualdub.

[audi]

how do you do that

[khp]

By loading the avs file created by GKnot into vitrualdub, and encode using quality based encoding @ 100 %. And check the size of the result. The compressablility numbers stated by GKnot reflect the size of the video at the selected bitrate compared to the maximum quality. Of course the compressability check in GKnot cheats a bit because it only encodes parts of the movie, and estimates how well it will compress at other resolutions than then one used when running the compressability check.

[audi]

ok i ripped vanilla sky again . Please Take a look at these files and maybe you will be able to tell why i got a file size of 1.18 gigs instead of 1400 megs

[khp]

Looks like you are still telling GKnot to reserve 181203 KB for external files. It should set to 0 if you want GKnot to use the full 1400 MB. See attachment.

Qualitywise I think you are at about 85-90% of the maximum filesize (but it's hard to know exactly). So this time Divx is encoding at the bitrate GKnot told it to use. But if you release the 181203 KB, it might hit maximum quality again, if you use the same resolution.

[audi]

what do i look at in those files i sent you to see if im at maximum quality ?

[khp]

The average quantizer is the key.

Maximum quality equals a quantizer of 2.

Higher quantizers equal lower quality.

With your latest encoding you had an average quantizer of 2.33.

As a reference point, I think an average quantizer of 4, would mean that you are at about 50% of the maximum filesize.