Ultimate Quality

[LoonyGoon]

Hi, I was wondering what kind of soft could guys like Dominion or Vite use: I'm used to DVD to Divx converting; but even when using divx 4.12 2 passes , I always stay much under their movie quality. You could take for exemple the dominion rip of SWORFISH: this rip RULEZ, I don't know how they do that.........

[MovieRipper]

I 've also been brainstorming for a couple of weeks on how to get Dominion and Vite quality rips and still didn't manage. Found somthing out tho. There movies are usually a little bit darker then other rips and the colors are stronger too. Maybe we should play around with some filters. What you think?

Movieripper

[Enchanter]

Anyone can post the properties of their rip here? Many posts back, I asked for details of their Shrek rip (Movie length, movie resolution, audio quality, codec used, etc.) and noone has bothered to reply.

I have not the bandwith to download large movies and hence have none of their rips to look at and compare with my own. It would be a good thing to, at least, know some obvious properties of their rips. I can make something out of it. Thankfully, my 1CD rip of Star Wars Episode I came out near perfect.

[MovieRipper]

Shrek (Vite)

Size: 701 MB (735.295.488 bytes)
Medialength: 87 min 59,70 sec.
Sound: MPEG Layer 3, 127 KB/s, 48,000 Hz, Stereo
Video: 512 x 384, 24 bits, 126571 frames, 23976 frames/sec, 136
KB/sec, DIVXMPG4 V3

Hope this will do

[Enchanter]

Judging by the given settings and my own experiences, I don't see why you can't get any good quality.

The movie length is approximately 88 minutes. To fit this onto a 700MB media, you can use a bitrate of around 950 (Check your calculator). With this bitrate, using a resolution of 512 x 384 with a 128kbps MP3 track, you should get, in fact, a sharp and detailed DivX movie. You can actually use a resolution of 640x480 and still stand little chance of getting macroblocks.

Lastly, the codec used was 3.11a and it's 99.99% guaranteed that nandub was used (Anyone knows any other 3.11 VBR encoder out there?). Anyone who is familiar with nandub shouldn't get any problems with this.

p.s. There does not seem to be any need to lose your sleep or sanity over this simple matter.

[Enchanter]

the colors are stronger too
Just want to add this in. 3.11a videos are indeed stronger in colour than 4.x videos. At least, it is the way with me and a few of my fellow encoder friends. :)

[setarip]

Forgive my eavesdropping on this dialog, but you've piqued my curiosity with your statement/question:

"Anyone knows any other 3.11 VBR encoder out there?"

In light of the fact that "MovieRipper" did not post the indicated number of Audio frames (which, for VBR, would typically be approaching twice that of the video frames), what has led you to conclude that it's VBR rather than CBR audio?

[Enchanter]

I was referring to VBR video rate actually. Most movies encoded with this codec have a VBR video rate nowadays. For the audio, as long as it is 128kbps or above, CBR or VBR, it is fine with me. :)

p.s. My point in the earlier question was if there is anything besides nandub that can encode videos using the 3.11a codec and in 2-passes.

Cheers!

[MovieRipper]

Atlantis The lost empire (Dominion)

Medialength: 95 min, 45,995 sec.
Sound: MPEG LAYER 3, 156 KB/s, 48.000 Hz. Stereo
Video: 640 x 272, 24 bits, 137766 frames, 23.976 frames/sec., 124 KB/sec, DIVXMPG4 V3

Believe me. This one looks really great I also look at the quality of the movie, then number of disk, then the plot etc. How do you feel about cutting up movies. You always stick to single CD-rips or is quality worthy of cutting up a movie. I think the last one is at place but if you have a really good movie like Gladiator, it's a bit of a dillema. If you make a single CD-rip, you'll get a really bad one. But that movie's just too good to cut it up. Having said this, You can safely say that soetimes you can't ignore the story, plot, (whatever) of the movie. So with Gladiator I ended up with a 1.2 GB movie sitting on my hard drive witch I've lost in a computercrash. Life's hard is it!!!!

[MovieRipper]

Shrek is indeed encoded with Nandub (at least that's what the propperties tell me) and the video and audio are VBR.

[Enchanter]

This one's not too hard to encode either. You can use a bitrate of 870. In addition, the total number of pixels in this Dominion rip is smaller than the Shrek (Vite), ie. [(512x384) - (640x272) > 0], which means that each frame gets more bit than you'd initially be inclined to believe.

I have always preferred the convenience of having my movie on a single CD and hence my efforts at getting max quality in as little space as possible (ie. 700MB). The quality is nowhere near bad and still better than VCDs too. :) There is no doubting that 2CD rips are better-looking, but hey! it is more challenging to work with 1CD rips and more rewarding to the heart too. :P

p.s. My admirations still go to the anime fansubbers. Their work is entirely legal (The ones in ETG definitely are) and there is more to the work than just a simple DVD ripping and conversion to DivX (Translation, timing, etc.).

[MovieRipper]

[QUOTE][i]
I have always preferred the convenience of having my movie on a single CD and hence my efforts at getting max quality in as little space as possible (ie. 700MB). The quality is nowhere near bad and still better than VCDs too. :) There is no doubting that 2CD rips are better-looking, but hey! it is more challenging to work with 1CD rips and more rewarding to the heart too. :P


I hear ya man. But where's the limit on putting everything on one CD. You should try this with a 3 hour movie. This is more of a hard thing to do putting that on a single disk. Then I think you're better off wit 2. You also state somthing about near VCD quality. Isn't the object of a good rip to come near DVD quality. By the way, VCDs are also 2 disk (accept for XVCD). Just something I thought of. Don't mean anything by it. Love to see some of your work by the way. :)

[Enchanter]

3 hours movie would be enough to make me consider 2CDs. I don't think I will tolerate using any bitrate lower than 500. :)

I said VCDs, because I don't intend to be boastful by saying DVD instead. :) However, you must realise that when you compress a video with a lossy compressor, such as DivX, there will be a loss of details and hence you cannot possibly attain DVD quality with DivX unless you make the file as big as the whole collection of vob files themselves. Okay, I know 2CD rips can get close to it anyway. :) In addition, you can't possibly think one single CD can contain as much detail as a DVD, can you?

[andreaskorth]

However, you must realise that when you compress a video with a lossy compressor, such as DivX, there will be a loss of details and hence you cannot possibly attain DVD quality with DivX unless you make the file as big as the whole collection of vob files themselves. [/B]

Disagree. DivX is superior to MPEG-2, thus you'll never come even close to the size of the VOB files even if you don't limit the bitrate. Besides, the VOB files usually contain additional audio tracks and subtitles which are not included in your final movie.

Example: I just ripped Se7en and encoded it with DivX 5. The VOB files size on the DVD was 7 GB. I encoded it in full resolution and moved the bitrate slider up to 10000 kbps (it's ridicolous, I know). The resulting DivX movie including two 80 MB VBR audio tracks is 1.3 GB. DivX simply doesn't require more than 1365 kbps to match MPEG 2 quality.

Could somebody kindly provide me with one of those Dominion or Vite Rips (Episode I or Shrek preferably)? I've never seen one of them and since they're praised so much, I'm eager to take a look.

[MovieRipper]

I remember in the good old days (been interested in video and audio compression since 1992 - Still got my old CD-I player and VCD player) I read an article on a big Dutch VCD encoder company that encoded the movie scene by scene to obtain the best quality. I know what you're gonna say: "this guy is nuts!". But what if we we're to do this with the DIVX's bitrate instead. I know you can define scene changing but I don't think this is entirally accurate. Same thing for motion control. You can set this too but it's gonna use the same deffenition during the whole movie and encoding process. For some people this might be a drag but if you're really a quality freack, it's probbably worth the bother. I'm intended to try this. I know it's gonna take me a long time but Rome hasn't been build overnight too. :)

[Enchanter]

These rips, I'm very positive, won't be any different from the DVD rips we have all done for ourselves. I don't see anything, judging by those provided values, that distinguishes their rips from any that we can make ourselves. Heck! I can probably gather a few of my friends who know how to encode and make a, what-you-call-it, rip group. :)

Rome hasn't been build overnight too
But this movie will be watched in a few hours time. And Rome is still standing and 'in use' too, you know. ;)

[MovieRipper]

Originally posted by andreaskorth


Disagree. DivX is superior to MPEG-2, thus you'll never come even close to the size of the VOB files even if you don't limit the bitrate. Besides, the VOB files usually contain additional audio tracks and subtitles which are not included in your final movie.

Could somebody kindly provide me with one of those Dominion or Vite Rips (Episode I or Shrek preferably)? I've never seen one of them and since they're praised so much, I'm eager to take a look.


You're so right but there's somthing to it I think. The quality of the movie for example. I could be wrong but isn't se7en a rather dark movie. Dark scenes don't usually take up much bitrate so that would explain it I think.

I can provide you with the Dominion- and Vite rips, just tell me how you wanne do this. Mailing the CDs is gonna be hard since I'm not from the US. If you have an FTP server or if you want to trade another way. Just let me know

[MovieRipper]

Originally posted by Enchanter
These rips, I'm very positive, won't be any different from the DVD rips we have all done for ourselves. I don't see anything, judging by those provided values, that distinguishes their rips from any that we can make ourselves. Heck! I can probably gather a few of my friends who know how to encode and make a, what-you-call-it, rip group. :)


Wouldn't be sure about that one. Lets look at this quality-wise. Some dark scenes in a movie (mostly the older ones) of a bad contrest. even if the scene is dark, there still is a white fog. What if we could remove the fog from that certain scene. Wouldn't this automatically lower the bitrate since that fog has not to be encoded?

[Enchanter]

In the case of an old movie, I would be considering the use of a smoother filter or the like.

[MovieRipper]

Originally posted by Enchanter
In the case of an old movie, I would be considering the use of a smoother filter or the like.

Now we're talking. Just filter it scene by scene. You'll see:)

[Enchanter]

Huh? Don't really get what you meant, but this smoother will definitely slow down your encoding speed. Worth it if you can get the desired results though.

[UncasMS]

se7en does indeed not need much space even with max. bitrate.

try, however, charly's angels!
with a bitrate of 6000-10000 you wont get away with less than 2000mb!

and btw: no other tool except for NANDUB is capable of 2 pass encoding with divx3

[Enchanter]

and btw: no other tool except for NANDUB is capable of 2 pass encoding with divx3

Thanks, Uncas. That clears some of the suspicions in my mind. :)

[MovieRipper]

Originally posted by Enchanter
Huh? Don't really get what you meant, but this smoother will definitely slow down your encoding speed. Worth it if you can get the desired results though.

OK. Here we go. Normally when you encode a movie, you set a desired avarage bitrate that will be used for the whole movie and every scene. However, some scenes can even look good if you go below that bitrate but because you encode the movie in full, those scenes take up more bitrate then they actually need.

If you encode them seperatally, you can change the desired bitrate scene by scene, making it possible for the codec not to use more bitrate then needed for that certain scene and getting the same quality results.

I'm testing this right now as we speek with an 82 frame scene (going from black screen into a logo). When I encoded it with an avarage 200, the filsize was 45KB. If I did it with 910, it was 65 KB and the same quality.

Imagine doing this the whole movie. Wouldn't that reach our goal. Highest quality at lowest bitrate?

[Enchanter]

Got what you mean there, but still it is a waste of time. Any VBR encoding methods would do more or less the same thing. Nandub even allows you to manipulate the curve compression so that it more or less achieves the same thing.

I know it is not exactly as accurate as your method, but not many are willing to spend so much time to so painstakingly encode individual scenes. There are many complications, including unpredictable filesize (not to mention making sure that all of the separately encoded scenes will fit nicely into the target size), and disorganisation from having so many separate video files scatterred here and there. The former will easily scare off many, including me. :)

[andreaskorth]

I read an article on a big Dutch VCD encoder company that encoded the movie scene by scene to obtain the best quality. I know what you're gonna say: "this guy is nuts!". [/B]

The question is if it is really worth the effort. You can turn ripping into a science of its own but if I really love a certain movie, I don't bother buying the DVD, particularily special editions with lots of extras which are really worth the money.

I only rip movies that I don't want to buy since they are nice yet not extraordinary. I don't want to spend too much time trying to achieve the best possible quality. I'm satisfied to end up with a reasonable 1-CD rip.

After all, you can't achieve a higher quality than that of the movie on the DVD. If the transfer from film is not well done (which is the case with many movies such as Titanic) there's nothing you can do about it.

[MovieRipper]

Totally agree. Hell I even just did this as a test. Never plan (or maybe just once to see what happends) on doing this myself. With just the right motion detection settings and bitrate curve altering, you could do pretty much the same. This brings us back to the original question on how Domminion does their famous high-quality rips. I think that specification of the bitrate for a certain part of the movie (using nandub or my cruel suggested method) is what they are doing instead of some global SBC encoding. After all, things like Nandub SBC are a DVD-ripper DIVX-encoder's dream. But nevertheless it's sometimes so complicated to set up the right combination for your movie, that people don't understand what they're doing (heell, even I don't sometimes). Luchally there are a couple of things out there (like Gordian Knot) who help more or less automize this with pretty good accurassy so SBC isn't totally unreachable.

[techno]

Hi there.

The new vidomi can do a 2pass.

But, I prefere NANDUB!

Techno

[MovieRipper]

Told you guys there was a belgian guy who could compress like we never compressed before. Just read this


The company MILLENNIUM GATE N.V. is proud to present a new strong technological performance of the Belgian electronic wizard Guillaume Defossé: a standard NOKIA 9210 adapted with his DGS-Operating System able to play a full feature movie @ 25 frames per second. The test movie is 108 minutes. The movie is stored on only one flash memory card of 16 MB (from which 11 MB is used for the OS and other software!). Guillaume optimized also the power consumption to 15 hours. Also great for PDA's


Don't say I didn't tell ya.

[Enchanter]

The problem with this is that you need a special hardware for this and we, the humble peasants, simply cannot all afford it. :)

Nandub is great and once you have understood its capabilities well, it's only a matter of curve manipulation. :)

[MovieRipper]

Originally posted by Enchanter
The problem with this is that you need a special hardware for this and we, the humble peasants, simply cannot all afford it. :)


In the early article I've read, there was no mentioning of sspecial hardware. In fact, he all did on his PC so maybe they wil release a software based version of it.

[Enchanter]

Really? We'll have to see how good the quality of this 'micro-video' is then. :)

[Chester345]

Could someone provide me with a small cut of either Episode 1 or Shrek made from the 'elite' rips of Dominion or others? I would like to compare quality with my own. just a 5 minute or so file from a decent part of the movie would be awesome.
Thanks!
:winkgrin:

[andreaskorth]

I've just had a look at Dominion's rip of Episode I (DivX 3 SBC). It's very decent in fact, but not supernatural. Can't really notice a difference to my own work. IMHO everybody who knows the ropes a little can achieve the same result. The Flask people among us however, may definetely be impressed ;)

[Enchanter]

The Flask people among us however, may definetely be impressed
Doubtlessly. :)