anime encoding

[shion]

hey i have made many animes
that are good quality and fit about 5 episodes on a CD
but i d/l this anime
which was only 50Mb
but same quality as my 120Mb .avi!
does anybody out there knows
how you can make it so small
without sacrificing the quality?
thanx

[Enchanter]

Can you post its resolution & audio quality? And is your anime episode done in VBR mode?

p.s. Ever seen a 35MB episode that looks more like it should have a filesize of 100MB (Light effects of macroblocks and clear-enough action scenes)?

[shion]

i dont think it has anything to do with the VBR mode and stuff
(what is it anyway)
but neway
it is
55.6 MB
23 minutes long
Mp3 55kbits/s 22,050Hz
320x 240
and for some reason the quality is exaclty the same as my 120Mb
both of mine and the 50Mb has no square at all
but it is half of mine

[Enchanter]

And are the both of your files of the same resolution and audio quality as well?

Since you have no idea what VBR (Variable Bit Rate) is, I can assume that your encode is in CBR (Constant Bit Rate) and that the smaller file is in VBR (Most anime encoders have started using VBR since the end of 2000 or somewhen after that).

VBR uses the basic concept of giving less bits to low-motion scenes and assign the extra bits to the fast-motion scenes, which will require a lot of bits. Do you have an idea now? :)

[shion]

oh ok
i have heard of that (VBR)
thanx for the help
where should i start off?

[Enchanter]

Firstly, are your anime encodes done from DVDs? And what codec are you using?

[shion]

sorry but i just looked at my settings
and i do actually encode with VBR (div-x 5)
and also yeah it is from the DVD
thanx

[Enchanter]

Ah? But DivX5 is a codec. When you're using it, you're not necessarily encoding in VBR. If you happen to be using its default settings (1-pass), it is definitely a CBR. I'm pretty sure of it given that you had no idea of VBR before, much less what a 2-pass encoding is. :)

Anyway, redo your encoding using 2-pass (It's the way to get a VBR video). You can use the guides for 4.x. The two codecs are basically similar in the way of operation, DivX5 being a spruced up version of 4.x.

[shion]

I do them in 2 pass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Enchanter]

Is that so?

A few things I could add in then. The video pictures on the smaller anime episode happens to be more easily compressible. Also, at what fps did you encode yours? 24 or 30fps? If you are using 24fps, I believe each frame will then get more bits. Most anime episodes are encoded at 24fps.

[shion]

oh so rry to tell you this so late
but i found something interesting in the properties
of the superb 50Mb anime
it only has 12fps
did they do that by frame decimation?
i have tried it
but in low motions the peopl move so slow
can you help me?

[Enchanter]

12fps? That's unacceptably low!!! You should settle for 24fps, as this is the framerate most anime encoders choose to use. 12fps. No wonder it looks good. :)

Firstly, what fps are you using? If it is 30fps and your source is at that fps, you can use Inverse Telecine to change the framerate to 24fps and reduce/remove interlacing artifacts. If you're serious about bringing the fps further down, I'm not the person to ask, as I wouldn't even dream of doing so. Decimate will be the way to go.

[shion]

nah the 12fps is about the 50Mb files
i use 24 fps as this is the source
(it is from an Australian DVD since the jap DVDs dont have english subtitle and i get complaints that peopl want subtitles but i really dont care cause i am jap )
so do u have any other settings or like filters
so that i can get a quality like the 50 Mb i have been talking about?
thanx

[Enchanter]

It's really hard to say whether your encode is that bad or the 50MB anime that good, without having a look at the each of them. I have done a few anime episodes in the 50MB boundary (Just for the sake of doing it) and the quality isn't really that bad, but still leaves me longing for the higher quality ones.

What I would do is to try different settings until you get something that gets close to your goal. You could try telling DivX5 to drop frames too (5-10%). That could help you achieve some size reduction, at the cost of video smoothness (not by much though). Decimating frames would help too, but I'm really against it. That would be no different than watching a Realmedia file.

[shion]

I totallu agree with not doing decimating
I tried it on the weekend
and all the motions skip along
would frame dropping creat audio suny probs?
thanx for the help so far

[shion]

I totallu agree with not doing decimating
I tried it on the weekend
and all the motions skip along
would frame dropping creat audio suny probs?
thanx for the help so far
p.s when i try making files in 50Mb boundary
my quality differs by a huge amount
when it moves from fast motion to low motion
it has huge squares but when it goes still it goes back perfect
and also in scenes where there are hu ge amounts of black
(space) there are huge squares everywhere

[Enchanter]

You could try using bilinear resizing to soften the picture and also crank up the DRF settings of Nandub. The uninformed viewer will most probably never be aware that some details had deliberately been discarded. :)

As I have previously mentioned, I am amazed at the skills these anime encoders have shown at making full use of the bits in as little space as possible. A 35MB file with 22-24min worth of show!!! Makes you wonder if they have use any other software that we have never heard of but is more superior than any we know.

[shion]

Thanx
So far I haven't done any of these skillfull stuff( might not be for you guyz) with div-x
I just ripped the DVD and calctulated the bitrate for 1 CD
and then used flask
So I have no idea what you are on about enchanter(sorry)
Can you give me a start with Nanudub please
Yeah I am also amazed with 30-50Mb 22min animes
which have superb quality
thanx for the generous help you have given me so far

[Enchanter]

It would better if you read Doom9's nandub guide first to gain some understanding on how this superb piece of software works. :) Then, it'll be much easier to explain things to you.

By the way, if you're currently using Flask and thinking of moving to Virtual-/Nandub, I suggest you have a look at frameserving as well because it will be required to allow vdub/nandub to process the .vob files. Avisynth and vFAPI are the two available options. GordianKnot allows you to work with the former, while a vFAPI plug-in/converter works for the latter. The learning curve should just be the same, not one of them is any harder or easier than the other. It depends on which one you will come to prefer or actually have no preference over. :)

[shion]

Oh I didnt know
that virtual dub can open .vob files
that is the reason i never moved to virtual dub nundub
( i only used it for dubbing adn subtitles and stuff)
can you help to limit the choices a bit further
if i dont like it i will try the other softwares

[Enchanter]

As I mentioned, vdub/nandub can open vob files, provided you frameserve. The options are basically down to 2, namely Avisynth and vFAPI.

Never used vdub/nandub for encoding? :) you're missing out a lot of great functions, you know. :)

[shion]

Hey I made the .avs file for nandub
but it says that it cant
determine the frame rate of the video
you must use the "fps" parameter
can you help me again thanx