Acpi Corruption

[relicwre]

Last week I lost my 4-year-old board, a PCCHIPS M810LR, due to an ACPI corruption from this program.

System is as follows:
Athlon 1.1GHz
XP SP2
512MB PC133
(ask for more info)

I've done lots of DVDs with this program and DVD Decrpyter in the past and had absolutely no problems whatsoever with it until now.

I got another board, an M811 and put the same hardware on that board. It ran fine lastnight until this morning when I left for work while it did the job and it CORRUPED MY NEW BOARD.

Any suggestions or fixes as to what I can do to possibly save ONE board because I'm not dishing out more money on anymore hardware.

[blutach]

:2wlcomdvf

This is the first time I have heard that DVD Shrink has killed hardware! You say you have done plenty of other backups without trouble. So, something else is wrong. The hardware experts may be able to help you.

Regards

[anonymez]

first i've heard of shrink killing hardware too. methinks this should be moved to the computing sub-forum :)

what exactly happens? can you post the error message?

acpi is a power management interface, and doesn't really have too many useful advantages (though there are some issues with older hardware not being able to use DMA when its not enabled). if you can get into the bios, or boot to windows at all, turn acpi off, then do a 'windows xp repair' by popping in your cd when you boot to windows. the repair is essential if you wish to try disabling/enabling acpi.

edit: also, this link may be of great use :) http://www.stud.fernuni-hagen.de/q3998142-bin/cgi-bin/ibrd/forums.cgi?forum=5

PS: have you tried getting your money back/servicing it?

[relicwre]

Well being I sometimes can't catch an error message, it had to do with NTOSKRNL then ACPI.SYS and just random dumps. The system RAM is still good so I counted that out. I also just RMA'd it so it's going back tomorrow or Saturday. The PCChips Lottery has nothing anyways, I've already read the entire M8XX section.

[anonymez]

good. let us know how it goes :)

btw, you might also want to buy a better quality, or more well-known brand motherboard (makes for more users, thus more known issues, and more support, not to mention much better quality than 'pc chips' ;) )next time, such as nforce, asus, abit, msi etc.

[Taelon]

Last week I lost my 4-year-old board...DVDShrink didn't kill your board. It died, likely from leaking capacitors. Unfortunately even the big name mobo companies had problems because of Taiwanese vendors who used a bogus stolen electrolyte recipe in their Low-ESR capacitors. You can read the whole story here (http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_30328/article.html). This problem affected so many people that there was even talk of class action suits against MSI, ABIT and others. Most of the big mobo manufacturers provided some type of extended warranties after the problems were publicized.

Unfortunately problems related to these crappy capacitors still existed in boards manufactured as recently as 2 or even 1 year ago. There currently are several businesses whose sole existence is to provide quality replacement capacitors for the techies who want to do it themselves and/or will replace bad caps for you.

Here are a few examples:

http://www.BadCaps.com
http://www.computekinc.us
http://www.motherboardrepair.com

Bottom line is don't expect any mobo manufactured over a year ago to last longer than a year since it likely has crappy caps.

[nwg]

DVD Shrink cannot kill hrdware. I am sure I would have heard something before as, I have been using Shrink since the day it came out in June 2003.

Some people have had problems with excessive heat but that is down to not enough ventilation/faulty hardware.

I have seen that badcaps site before. My motherboard recently went as well (Gigabyte 7VAXP). It was from bad caps but blown a chip on the board which made the box fill up with smoke.

[relicwre]

I could just send one of you this board and you'll see what I mean. It's certainly not caps.

[blutach]

@relicwre

I'd be very interested to know how the software did it.

Regards

[Taelon]

I could just send one of you this board and you'll see what I mean. It's certainly not caps.I take it that you are saying there are signs that something else on the board is fried. This doesn't mean the caps weren't the reason that component failed, if voltage spikes got past the voltage regulation stage it could possibly fry any component in your system including the CPU, Memory, Video Card, Drives, etc. But it doesn't matter where the initial failure occured, I only mentioned bad caps because it's a known issue with older hardware.

I don't mean to be harsh, and believe me I'm the cheapest person I know, but for me, being cheap means only buying after researching what will best suit my needs and only buying when I can get a 'good deal'. The simple fact is that your mobo is not only cheap, but low quality, it only costs $30 new! I'm guessing your system also has a generic Power Supply that would burst into flames if pushed near the ratings on it's nameplate, and you likely have inadequate cpu and case cooling.

Ok, I've probably just pissed you off, but let me tell you a bit about my background. I'm a bit of an electronics hardware fanatic, years ago, I repaired and calibrated high-end electronics test equipment for the gov't for a living. After that I spent years repairing NC & CNC machine tools by a variety of manufacturers and after that, industrial robots both domestic and foreign. I've also re-engineered crappy designs to make the equipment less troublesome and more reliable. I know the difference between quality hardware and everything else. To put it frankly, your mobo is not a quality product. It was designed for light use, word processing, surfing the web, etc.

Here's the thing you need to understand, encoding is extremely processor intensive, whether it's audio or video. While encoding, your system will be pushed to it's maximum with the CPU running at 100% load for the duration of the process, if there is a weak link in your system, it will fail.

You want to blame DVDShrink, but it's only software. Software can't kill hardware, generally speaking. (There are hacks that can make a hard drive thrash itself to death, and I can program a robot to repeatedly smash itself into a column or wall, but that's not what I'm talking about). I would put money on what appears to be a simple fact, your hardware just can't handle the task, and would fail in a similar manner if you ran SuperPI or Memtest86 or any other stress test for 24 hours straight. If you think about it, the costs and lost use of sending the mobo back every time it fails will quickly add up to, or surpass what it would have cost you to purchase a better quality mobo in the first place.

end of sermon

[nwg]

It is not worth spending cheap on the motherboard. Is it the heart of the computer and needs to be decent quality.

My Gigabyte board was £120 when new and that still went after only 18 months (not bad caps).

[blutach]

I'm the cheapest person I knowBelieve him on this point - he's still on dial-up!!! :rotfl:

As well Taelon, there are special quotes to use for "sermons" :ranton: :rantoff: (see forum rule 84A(1)(c)(iii))

Regards

[Taelon]

hey blu, I'll start using those special 'smilies' for my sermons when LT learns how to use [ QUOTE ] & [ /QUOTE ] :rofl:

[blutach]

That's a hangover from the old days. LT is showing he's an Old Timer, that's all.

Regards

[relicwre]

Six of the caps on the old board by the CPU harness are swollen. Two on the new board that died just now have leaked and theres a little bit of fluid around the edges of the top.

Taelon, I've pulled caps, resistors, diodes and things from boards long ago for other use. If I can easily replace these, then I could get it working again or will it involve more work?

[Taelon]

It's very possible to replace the caps and get a working board. However make sure you get good quality Low ESR caps, and don't replace only the ones that look bad, replace all of them.

At least one of the sites I linked to earlier has DIY instructions for replacing the caps, the biggest thing to remember is that the board is multi-layer (traces sandwiched in between the phenolic layers) so you need to apply the heat sparingly when removing the caps. The best method I've found is to heat a lead and pry it up and out, don't even attempt to use a solder wick. You can use a solder sucker to remove excess but use a heated pin or dentist pick or similar to push the remaining solder out of the hole. Also be sure to mark the polarity on the board if it isn't already marked.

Found some more links:

How "Anyone" Can Replace Capacitors: http://www.overclockers.com/tips1081/

How to Get It Done the "Ugly" way: http://www.overclockers.com/tips758/

Some General Tips on Soldering Skills: non-working link removed

I didn't buy one of the kits, I got my parts from Mouser (http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?handler=home) their prices were great, although the shipping was pretty high, anyway the board is still running strong a year later. Here's what I used on my Abit KT-7:

<table class="bluetable" border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="2"> <tbody><tr> <td class="rowheading">
</td> <td class="rowheading" align="center">Mouser
Part #</td> <td class="rowheading" align="center">Mfr.'s
Part #</td> <td class="rowheading" align="center">Manufacturer
Description
Your Part#</td> <td class="rowheading">Order
Qty.</td> <td class="rowheading" align="center">Availability*</td> <td class="rowheading" align="center">Price</td> <td class="rowheading" align="center">Ext.</td> </tr><tr bgcolor="#eef0f4"> <td class="normalfont" align="center">
</td> <td class="normalfont">647-UPW0J222MPD6</td> <td class="normalfont">UPW0J222MPD6
Nichicon</td> <td class="normalfont">6.3V 2200uF 10x25
</td><td class="normalfont" align="center"> 10</td> <td class="normalfont" align="center"> 10 Ships Immediately
</td><td class="normalfont" nowrap="nowrap">$ 0.590</td> <td class="normalfont" nowrap="nowrap">$ 5.900</td> </tr><tr bgcolor="#eef0f4"> <td class="normalfont" align="center">
</td> <td class="normalfont">140-HTRL160V4.7</td> <td class="normalfont">140-HTRL160V4.7
Xicon</td> <td class="normalfont">160V 4.7uF 105C
</td><td class="normalfont" align="center"> 2</td> <td class="normalfont" align="center"> 2 Ships Immediately
</td><td class="normalfont" nowrap="nowrap">$ 0.130</td> <td class="normalfont" nowrap="nowrap">$ 0.260</td></tr></tbody> </table>

[relicwre]

I appreciate your help on this. I'll start on it when I have time, but I'll probably use the boards for something else incase this happens again. Also that gameconsolerepair link doesn't work. I'll get back to you on the results.

[Chewy]

"I got another board, an M811 and put the same hardware on that board. It ran fine lastnight until this morning when I left for work while it did the job and it CORRUPED MY NEW BOARD."

most likely another hardware component is at fault! I have had cpu's that fried mobos and vice versa!

[Taelon]

Also that gameconsolerepair link doesn't work.Apparently they removed the article, I'll remove the link here.

@rbrtpl; He stated later that when he inspected the boards they both had visibly bad caps. True there may be other hardware that is going or gone bad, but no way to really test it until the cap problem is sorted out.

[Chewy]

I was just warning that another component may be frying the mobo's.

[relicwre]

I got an Asus A7V600-X. We'll see how far this goes ;-)

[anonymez]

should go much farther than your previous boards, it is of much higher quality. though if you're outside the US, good luck getting support (asus support sucks here in aus, as its pretty much non-existant)

[relicwre]

Alright. it hasnt even been 24 hours yet and it seems to be doing the same thing again. At long last I estimated it to be the GFX 5500 card. I put the 5200 back in but I was probably too late. What does everyone else think?

[Chewy]

"I was just warning that another component may be frying the mobo's."

What does your utility say about the voltages after windows is loaded?
If you don't have the asus, then use
http://mbm.livewiredev.com/

also bios hardware monitor!

powersupply issues?

another component may be pulling too much power, but it would be one
like a cpu or system fan that's connecting to the mobo.

HAVE YOU DONE A REPAIR OF XP OR A CLEAN INSTALL AND LOADED
THE MOBO DRIVERS FOR THE NEW MOBO!

Sorry to shout, BUT!!!!!!!!!!!

[Taelon]

I would suspect the Power Supply, especially if it's a cheap generic brand. I can't emphasize enough the importance of good clean power, voltage spikes or varying voltages can and will damage any/all components in your system.

[relicwre]

Well my 350W I havent even had for probably 2 years is an Antec. I just went out and bought a 400W (still Antec) but its combined max out is 130W (+5,+3.3V). Do you think this will work?

[relicwre]

HAVE YOU DONE A REPAIR OF XP OR A CLEAN INSTALL AND LOADED
THE MOBO DRIVERS FOR THE NEW MOBO!

Well even if I repaired or did a clean install now, setup would just crash because it's already doing it. Page faults, NTOSKRNLs, etc.

[relicwre]

As we speak, a clean install and a repair are still failing to the 400W.

[Chewy]

As we speak, a clean install and a repair are still failing to the 400W.

Sounds more like memory, optical drive/os disk or hard drive problem.

[relicwre]

Well after long and hard extended tests, it comes to be the processor; the main trouble-maker of it all. Right now im looking for a few friends in town who might have any athlon systems with ddr ram so i can test theirs on my board.

[Chewy]

Life's a b***h, I just wasted hours loading(trying to) an extra computer for
some associates(leftovers from my upgrade projects).
First, no post, thermal paste(conductive) contamination. Agp card not seated
properly, after much hairpulling, cleaned cpu's, laquer thinner/qtips, cleared cmos(2 mobos), now everything works(I have lots of spare parts/only way
to troubleshoot!).
Now's the fun part, my xp-mobile and xp64 OVERCLOCKING, AND THEN
the testing of Nero, shrink, DVDD, quality media, mass production style.
Well done relicwre. welcome to hardware troubleshooting!

[blutach]

Why bother testing Nero - you know it doesn't work!!! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Use ImgBurn/DVD Decrypter instead.

Regards

[Chewy]

Why bother testing Nero - you know it doesn't work!!! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Use ImgBurn/DVD Decrypter instead.

Regards

That's why I have to test, for some reason Nero really likes me,
might be I am on the right side of the equator or something.
:smile:

[nwg]

That's why I have to test, for some reason Nero really likes me,
might be I am on the right side of the equator or something.
:smile:

I never had any problems with Nero either.

[Taelon]

Bad CPU's can make you crazy. I bought one for an upgrade years ago from a store where a friend who bought thousands of dollars of equipment on a monthly basis bought all his parts (he built and sold pc systems on the side). Within days I was convinced the CPU was faulty, it gave me all kinds of odd problems which were hard to pin down. After a few weeks I took it back to the store, they took it into the back room, claimed to test it and said it was fine. After a few more weeks of fighting with it, I finally went and bought another CPU (from a different store). After replacing the CPU all the problems were gone.

[relicwre]

I cleaned the sink and the processor of all compound. It was more on the sink though, and SO FAR things are looking good. Of course I never had time to take the board back and another processor I got wasn't no good. The next thing to worry about is Linux (BSD worked a bit better though).


...until I woke up at 430 with it locked up when I saw the mouse was steadily lit up. Now it's back to square one.

[Chewy]

A buddy bought an amd3200/400 for 450$, it came with amd fan and thermal pad, they mounted it, they used it running in the high 50-60's C.
for over 2 years, it maxed out when I checked it(AC was being fixed) at
85C, it's redline. The goop was baked on when I disassembled yesterday.
It still worked but flacky, seemed fine when I underclocked to 333fsb.
Even got a good load with XP. I plan on cleaning and reusing in budget
computer. Amazing that it's still running.

[relicwre]

You can tell im persistent in getting this thing to work since I have no other options at the moment. Right now I put on my last heatsink with no compound.

Temp: [Case] 36.0°C [CPU] 47.0°C

This is -10 than what the last sink was doing.

Let's see how long this lasts before it mysteriously crashes.

[Chewy]

I prime the heatsink with real good compound(just smear it on, a haze,
only to fill fine cracks, then put the thinnest layer on the core of the cpu.

My cpu(37) is only 3 degrees above case temp, it used to run in the high 40's
but I use the generic thermaltake coolers on my economy cpu's.
Good ones(+100$) get 30-40$ thermaltake coolers, since I upgraded to
shrink 3.2 this is critical.

I use a VERY DANGEROUS conductive(CU) geil paste, one smidge on any
exposed parts(no posty processor)!

[relicwre]

It doesn't appear to be a heat issue. It does the same thing. I'm thinking frequencies.

[Chewy]

Have you ruled out ram or it's settings in bios??????
http://www.cpuid.org/cpuz.php

[relicwre]

I'll check that program out when I can. I'm getting a AXP 400FSB processor soon anyways.

[Chewy]

I love it(the program) for it's ability to show me what
my ram is running at(cas2-2-2-6), compared to what the
the spd(and advertised) says (cas2-2-2-5).
Interpreting bios memory settings are a ROYAL
Pain in the proverbial donkey.

[relicwre]

I got an XP 2600+ the other day and a 512MB PC2700 yesterday. So far it still locked up (no BSOD) from the processor getting hot. It turns out the AMD fans aren't recommended for squat these days. Other than that I think I'm out of this hell I've been dealing with and consider this thread closed :). If anything else arises it will be under another thread name. I thank everyone for their suggestions and comments on helping me get things finally fixed.