Burning Dual Layer Discs

[drfsupercenter]

I think I put my post in the wrong section before, see here:

http://forums.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?t=56501

Please reply as I have no idea how to burn DL discs!!

[blutach]

Have a look here (http://forum.digital-digest.com/showpost.php?p=246046&postcount=7) for the easiest way.

In respect of setting your own layer break, look at the guide on the PgcEdit site (http://www.videohelp.com/~r0lZ/pgcedit/third_party/blutach/dl_burning_with_pgcedit.htm). You first need to set up PgcEdit's burn function (Options - Input/Output - Burn/ISO Creation settings)

Regards

[drfsupercenter]

OK - I get this error message.

"Error: Cannot find the first VMG Sector"

What does that mean? I opened the DVD in PgcEdit like normal. Also, Nero will burn DL discs, should I automatically rule that out or not? If it sets a default layer break, will that be bad?

:OMG:

[Pinan]

drfsupercenter: Sounds like an authoring issue. What did you author it in?

I run mine through DVD Shrink, then to PgcEdit, with no issues at all.

And yes. Nero may well reset the LB. blutach may tell you this. Heh

Also: Imgburn is the new *burning only* version of DVDDecrypter. The newest PgcEdit works with it well, and easily.

http://www.imgburn.com/

[blutach]

@Pinan - If PgcEdit offers no choice whatsoever for the LB then you have authored the disk with cells of too big a size, so that no cell boundary falls within the LB parameters. This is bad but not irretreivable.

Find the middle of the title and split a cell with DVD Remake Pro - guide (http://www.dimadsoft.com/dvdremakepro/ht_insert_chapter.php) (see my sig for DVDRMP site).

If only one is offered (it will be the original and be blue), take that one!

Regards

[blutach]

OK - I get this error message.

"Error: Cannot find the first VMG Sector"

What does that mean? I opened the DVD in PgcEdit like normal. Also, Nero will burn DL discs, should I automatically rule that out or not? If it sets a default layer break, will that be bad?

:OMG:This means that VIDEO_TS.IFO (and BUP) is probably not present or corrupt. The first VMG sector is defined in this file.

Regards

[blutach]

No, the dark blue line in my guide is simply Windows XP's highlight. There should be some cells though.

DVD Shrink has no place in DL copies. But if you do use it, make sure remove LB is not checked in preferences (unless of course you want to use PgcEdit or ImgBurn to set the LB manually).

As I said before, the key is that a cell boundary must exist near the edge of the disk. Are you sure you have the burning setup done right?

Regards

[drfsupercenter]

Hmmm... I used TMPGEnc DVD Author and then replaced all the VOB's and IFO's (Except for VIDEO_TS) with the ones from Nero Recode. As suggested in some guide. Should I just burn with Nero, or should I not use a default LB. :biggrin:

[blutach]

You can't do that drf. VIDEO_TS contains important info about all the titlesets. Do not burn.

What you can do is import them properly.

From PgcEdit: File - New DVD. Then import the titlesets. Click under VMG, First Play. File - Import VTST titles. Navigate to the folder which contains your titlesets. Pick an IFO for a VTS which contains your VOBs (VTS_01_0.IFO for example). Select move VOBs. Do this for as many titlesets as you need.

Import Menus (including VMGM with Menu - Import Menu) following the same method).

Author the commands for VMG First Play. Check there are no bad jumps with Info - Find Jumps to Nowhere. Trace through your DVD to ensure it plays.

But it might be easier simply to go back to what you had in TDA.

Regards

[drfsupercenter]

Now, I get this message.

"Can't find a suitable cell for the layer break!"

Why is this? There are four titles on the DVD, wouldn't the break occur between the second and third movies? What should I do now - it won't continue with this error message.

[blutach]

The LB follows very defined rules. Layer 0 (the first layer) MUST have more data in it than L1. And of course, both must have less than the absolute limit. And a LB can only happen on a cell boundary.

If your DVD is authored so that it can't find a cell that meets these rules, PgcEdit will hollder like it just did and not permit you to create an ISO (and make a coaster).

Therefore, you need to calculate where your cells are and probably split the cells of one of the titles - DVD Remake Pro is the easiest tool for this.

Please post your IFOs and I can tell you where things are awry.

Regards

[drfsupercenter]

What happens if I split a title? Will that mean that the movie will be split in two? Will I still be able to select that title from the main menu and it will play all the way through? Also, DVD Remake Pro is not free! Is there a free way to do this?

As for the IFO's, I will post them later, for I am on a school computer now.

;)

[blutach]

All titles on commercial movies are currently split. But they play seamlessly, so you don't notice the various cells (except at the layer break, where there is a slight pause).

To do this for free, try TMPGEnc. DVD Author - trialware for 30 days.

Regards

[drfsupercenter]

I have DVD Author. However, how does that work with the Nero Recode way? That way you use DVD Author to make the menus, and then overwrite the normal VOB files with Nero Recode ones to retain the subtitles. If I use DVD Author, the subtitles will be gone! Also, why wouldn't the break just happen between movies 2 and 3? Theoretically it would work because the combined time for movies 1-2 is about 3 hours and the time for movies 3-4 is only 2.5 thus there would be more data on the first layer. Is there another program that forces the layer break to occur there? And what does Nero do? It WILL burn DL discs, does it just make some default LB?

[drfsupercenter]

Here are the IFO files for you.

[blutach]

The time is not relevant, just the space taken up on the disk. And yes, TDA has this limitation about subtitles.

For mine, I would use muxman anyway (see my sig). It's just these packages have glitzy interfaces and can do the job a bit easier.

To use muxman, you need demuxed titles (into m2v, ac3 and whatever format your subbies are in). Use PGC demux for this. Now the only other thing you need is a little text file called celltimes.txt, which defines the chapter points (in frames).

To get used to muxman, do a trial run on a small title (say a single 25 minute episodic title from somewhere).

EDIT: These titles already contain cells! Title 3 starts at sector sector 2,091,609. But this is too high (max is 2,086,912). You need to split Title 2, cell 28 into 2. Three quarters-way should be sufficient. This disk is verrrrrry full and no margin has been left for error.

Once the split is done (see above for how), then load VIDEO_TS.IFO up in IfoEdit (see my sig). Navigate to VMG_PTT_SRPT and see where title 3's starting sector starts at address 0x000028. It must be lower than 2,086,912 and you need to ensure that layer 1 is not too much. As I said, there's little margin for error. Do ensure you are using Verbatim media, which at least has a decent chance of writing and playing to the edge of the disk.

EDIT 2: Please see the attached celltimes file for muxing for title 2. This should work. The LB will be 85% way through what is now the last cell (which will be split into 2 after the mux).

Regards

[drfsupercenter]

Well, here is the thing. I have Memorex discs? Will those work? Also, the reason the disc is so full is that I used DVD Shrink to fit the 4 movies from 13 gigs to the 8.5. So, naturally it is full. Should I just compress by a couple more percent to get that balance just right?

And my question still, what does Nero do when burning DL discs? I know it will do it, the question is how.

[blutach]

ANY burning prog will make a coaster on your DVD. There is simply no place for the LB unless you do what I suggested.

And yes, a wonderful idea would be to shrink title 2 by about 1% and Title 3 by about 5%. Titles 1 and 4 can be left alone.

I would chuck the memorex out and only use Verbatims - especially if you have such a full disk.

If DVD Shrink produced this disk, then unfortunately DVD Shrink can not, in re-author/compilation mode, make a DL disk which respects the LB rules.

Regards

[drfsupercenter]

I am talking DVD Shrink in Full Disc mode. I will try that and then try the LB. Is it worth trying the Memorex? When I was at the computer store shopping for the discs the associate said that Memorexes were great and that he never had a problem, that he had the Verbatims but that most people there like the Memorex. I have never had a problem with Memorex single layer DVD+R but that doesn't mean anything.

So, once I set a layer break, do I just create the ISO and then burn with DVD Decrypter?

[blutach]

He was just trying to sell you Memorex. verbatims are the best around. People like cheaper disks, but you wil know by now, that cheap usually means lower quality.....not too bad if you're spending 20 cents on a disk, but horrible if you're spending 15 times that. Insist on the Verbatims - especially for big burns.

Now, if you are in full disk mode, you can still do what I suggest. Here's how:


Re-author title 2 at 1% compression and pop it in a folder.
Re-author title 3 at 5% compression and pop it in another folder.
Open the original project in VobBlanker and highlight both VTS 2 and 3. Click Process at the right. In VTS 2, replace title 2 (at the bottom) with your re-authored version. Similarly with title 3. Click Process down the bottom and make coffee.
http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/1767/20wp.gif
Regards

[drfsupercenter]

Hmmm. I just did a normal full disc backup and then did what u said earlier about re-building in PgcEdit. Now it keeps sayint that it cannot find the first VGM Sector!!!!!

:confuzed:

[blutach]

A normal full disk backup will not require rebuilding. But if it can't find VMG, it means your VIDEO_TS.IFO is corrupt or non-existent.

Regards

[drfsupercenter]

Very odd. The file IS there. It plays fine in Nero ShowTime. I will try rebuilding another time and if that doesn't work, I'll try the VobBlanker thing.

[drfsupercenter]

OK. I have re-made the DVD about 5 times now but it STILL will not find the VMG file. Should I take the original 13 GB one and just re-shrink all over again?

I think it has to do with all this moving VOB files stuff

--EDIT--

I found a guide using another program here:
http://www.mediachance.com/dvdlab/Helppro/layerbreak.htm
would that work? As long as the sizes are right and the program is not picky about VMG files, it should work in conjunction with DVD Decrypter, right?

--EDIT 2--
CRAP the program is not free!

Will keep looking for freeware
**wishes there was like a SetLayerBreakPro freeware prog**

[blutach]

I repeat - the way your disk is consturcted at the moent - nothing will work. If it is easier for you, simply Shrink your current 8.5Gb project in full disk mode by about 5%.

The use PgcEdit to set a layer break.

Regards

[drfsupercenter]

That is what I did! The 8.5 gig one does that too! I am now just shrinking from the ORIGINAL 13 GB one to 8.5 so that it will work. I will then do a full disc backup like you said.

BTW, read this - it's pretty funny how little they know:
One more detail in burning DL discs is having the appropriate software that knows how to burn to both layers, and how to properly divide 8+ GB of data to insert a layer break between the two halves. Sony ships a slightly reduced version of the Nero 6 Ultra Edition DVD suite with its drives (www.nero.com (http://www.nero.com/)), including the Nero Burning ROM and Nero Express CD/DVD mastering software for data, audio and CD/DVD writing, plus Nero VisionExpress 2 VCD/SVCD and DVD authoring software, and a broad collection of other tools and utilities. If you already have the Nero 6 Ultra Edition suite, you can download the free version 6.6 upgrade for full support.

Here is what I read about Nero and other progs - they automatically place the layer break smack dab in the middle - is that BAD?

[blutach]

The must be placed according to the rules I set out earlier. In the middle is a coaster without a cell boundary.

Regards

[drfsupercenter]

OK - those idiots at Sony

LOL

**kicks Nero**

[drfsupercenter]

ACK! I totally re-did the DVD, by re-compressing my original 13 gig folder. Then I shrunk buy 5% like you said. PgcEdit STILL could not find the first VMG sector. So I re-made the DVD by doing what you said, New DVD and then importing the titles and menus. However, that still could not find the first VMG sector. What am I doing wrong? Is there a free program other than PgcEdit that could potentially set a layer break?

[blutach]

If PgcEdit can't find a LB, nothing will. Your cells are not aligned properly. Go back and try what I said here (http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?postid=309683#post309683).

Regards

[drfsupercenter]

Does it have to do with DVD Shrink? When I first opened the original 13GB one in PgcEdit it said that there was something that it had to fix re. IFO files that was a common problem when using DVD Shrink in Re-Author Mode. I will try Nero Recode for shrinking and see what happens.

Just curious, what happens if I shrink to a DL disc in DVD Shrink and say Create ISO and burn with DVD Decrypter?

Click Process down the bottom and make coffee. Does that mean that the process takes a long time?

:allalone:

[blutach]

PgcEdit fixes that little DVD Shrink bug - it's not an important one.

Just long enopugh to enjoy a nice cuppacoffee :) Try it! (enjoy your coffee :smile: )

Regards

[drfsupercenter]

LOL. Well I will try using Nero Recode but if that doesn't work I will use your suggestion. What I don't get is this: It DID find the first VGM at one point - just couldn't set a LB. Then I shrunk it and it couldn't find the VGM sector, and neither could the original. That is weird. I will probably just remake the entire DVD.