Using IfoEdit: Setting the 16:9 (16x9) Flag

[admin]

The purpose of this guide:

Many standalone DVD recorders on the market today have problems when recording widescreen content that may not be at first apparent. The problem occurs when a true widescreen input (not a letterboxed one) is fed into the DVD recorder, which then records it as if it were 4:3 (fullscreen) content without setting the 16:9 (16x9) flag.

When playing back this recorded DVD on a 4:3 screen that has manual 16:9 switching (allowing to you manually vertically squeeze the picture), everything appears to be fine. But when playing it back on a widescreen monitor with a DVD player that automatically corrects the aspect ratio (eg. adds black bars to the left and right to make the 4:3 content appear correct), then what you get is something that looks like this:

http://www.dvdr-digest.com/articles/ifoedit_169/widescreen_bad.jpg

When it should actually look something like this:

http://www.dvdr-digest.com/articles/ifoedit_169/widescreen_good.jpg

When playing back the DVD on a 4:3 monitor that doesn't have manual 16:9 mode switching, you may get something like this:

http://www.dvdr-digest.com/articles/ifoedit_169/fullscreen_bad.jpg

When it should look like this:

http://www.dvdr-digest.com/articles/ifoedit_169/fullscreen_good.jpg

The reason why this is the case is because the recorded DVD's aspect ratio (the ratio of width/height) is set to 4:3 mode, instead of 16:9. Your DVD recorder has actually managed to record the widescreen content in an anamorphic fashion without setting the anamorphic/16:9 flag.


Solutions:

The simplest solution to solve this problem for your widescreen display is to setup your standalone DVD player's "TV Output" setting to "4:3" (either pan-scan or letterbox will do). The problem with this approach, other than the fact that you have to keep on switching between this setting, is that some DVD players (eg. computer based software DVD players like PowerDVD, and certain "big brand" DVD players) either don't have this option or the options doesn't actually work. And if you are making this DVD for a friend or you wish to lend it to others, then it is troublesome to expect them to make the same switch on their DVD players. There are no simple solutions if your TV is 4:3 and it doesn't have manual 16:9 switching (other than to get a new TV set).

The solution outline in this guide is one that will allow you to change the recorded DVD's mode from 4:3 to 16:9, or otherwise referred to as "setting the 16:9 flag". This can be done using a free tool called IfoEdit.

Because you'll be editing files on a DVD, it is recommended that you do the following first:

1. Use a DVD rewritable disc to initially make the recording in your standalone DVD player
2. Finalize the disc
3. Copy the files from the disc to your computer and then proceed to edit these copied files

This guide assumes you have done the above.


Software you'll need:

1. IfoEdit (http://www.dvdr-digest.com/software/ifoedit.html)


Instructions:
The DVD files you copied from the recorded DVD should look something like this (you may have more or less files than shown in the screenshot):

http://www.dvdr-digest.com/articles/ifoedit_169/dvd_files.gif

You can try to play back these files within a software DVD player like PowerDVD (in PowerDVD, use the "Open DVD files on hard disk drive" option), and you should immediately see playback aspect ratio problem, and the "Keep Aspect Ratio" option (that normally allows you to set if 16:9 anamorphic content should be displayed normally or vertically stretched) won't work.

There might be several files you need to edit within IfoEdit to set the 16:9 flag. The first file is usually VTS_01_0.IFO (VIDEO_TS.IFO and VIDEO_TS.VOB are the files for the menu, and all the BUP files are BackUP files for all the IFO files). There might also be VTS_02_0.IFO, VTS_03_0.IFO and so on - these indicate more than one title set on your DVD (eg. if you have recorded more than one show/clip using the DVD recorder). You will need to edit each and every title set (IFO file) that has the 16:9 problem, following the instructions below on each of the IFO files/title sets.


In IfoEdit, click on the "Open" button and open the VTS_01_0.IFO file


IfoEdit should now display the information for this file. Look for the line shown in the screenshot below (marked in red), notice that it specifies the "4:3" aspect ratio for this title set.

http://www.dvdr-digest.com/articles/ifoedit_169/ifoedit_video.gif


Double-click on this line to edit it. A new window should open, and it is here that you can select the correct (16:9) aspect ratio for your widescreen DVD. You should also select (check) the "Automatic Pan&Scan" and "Automatic Letterboxed" options. Enabling these options will allow your DVD player to set how this DVD should be played.

http://www.dvdr-digest.com/articles/ifoedit_169/ifoedit_169.gif

When you have finished editing, press "OK" to close the window.


Click on the "Save" button to save your edited IFO file, and select "Yes" when IfoEdit asks if you wish to create a BUP (BackUP) file.


Now repeat steps 2 thru 5 for each title set you need to modify. When you are finished with these title sets, you will then need to open up VIDEO_TS.IFO, and then repeat the changes for each of the title sets you have modified - it will be fairly obvious where you need to make the changes. For example, the screenshot below shows a DVD with 3 title sets that need to be changed.

http://www.dvdr-digest.com/articles/ifoedit_169/ifoedit_videots.gif


After you have finished editing all your IFO files, you can close IfoEdit and try to play back these files again within a software DVD player like PowerDVD (in PowerDVD, use the "Open DVD files on hard disk drive" option), and you should immediately find that the content plays back at the correct aspect ratio, and that the "Keep Aspect Ratio" option now works properly.


Now all you need to do is to burn your copied and edited DVD files to a DVD disc, using Nero Burning ROM or a similar DVD-Video burning software. And we're done.

[Godfrey]

For some reason changing the aspect ratio flag in IFOedit to 16:9 does not work. Clicking "ok" after setting the flag leaves the line of video MPEG-2 unchanged, Any ideas why this is not working please?

[benbryant]

Did you do the step 5 to save the change?

Regards

[r0lZ]

IMHO, it is easier to change the 16:9 flag with PgcEdit. Just right-click on any PGC of the domain and select "Domain Streams Attributes". The changes will be applied to the IFO of the current VTS and in the copy of the streams attributes in the VMGM (in VIDEO_TS.IFO).
With IfoEdit, you have to do the two modifications by hand, and IfoEdit has a lot of bugs in its GUI.

[Godfrey]

Thanks Ben. We click "ok" after setting the ratios but the VTS file remains unchanged whereas previously we saw it change over from 4:3 to 16:9. Clicking "save" makes no difference. It is as if the programe just isnt working, and we have downloaded it four time now.

It was fantastic when it worked!

BTW how do you delete the programme? It doesnt show up in the remove file listing.

[Godfrey]

Have found out what went wrong and have successfully flagged files to 16:9.

We now have adapted video filesand audio file on hard drive. But want to burn dvd from DVD workshop 2 for dual layer facility.How do we get the adapted files in a format ( eg single .avi) to import into Workshop 2?

[admin]

I'm editing in Avid and exporting to 16:9 Quicktime files. Then adding those quicktime files to Nero which then (for some godforsaken reason) will squeeze or stretch the video so that it is neither 4:3 nor 16:9. I would assume it's more like a 14:9. Because it either has letterbox on the top or the sides no matter what I do. So I burned the DVD and followed your steps. Then I played the TS video back on my computer with Power DVD. This time it still had Nero's stupid added letterbox but now it was playing extra wide. What looks to me like a 2.35:1. Definately wider than my original Quicktime files. I played it on the DVD and it looked exactly like the first copy. With a 14:9 letterbox video which looks squeezed (horizontally). So your changes had absolutely no effect on my DVD players ability to play the DVD. To triple check I put the DVD back into my computer and opened the files and sure enough the Ifoedit software says "16:9" Pan and Scan, Letterbox etc. So like I said. It doesn't work. It plays extra wide on Power DVD and exactly the same as before on my DVD player.

The above quote comes from a the comments section of the article on Digital Digest, which I will reply to here.

Dewandeler did you encode your QuickTime MOV files as anamorphic widescreen, or are they just plain old widescreen? I have a feeling that the problem you are experiencing is not exactly related to this guide, and that this guide might not actually be relevant to your problem.

Is the native/proper aspect ratio of your video 1.85:1?

And when when you say you loaded it in Nero, is that Nero Burning ROM or Nero Vision?

If your QuickTime files were anamorphic with an internal flag set by Avid/QuickTime to indicated this, and let's say you load this file into Nero Vision. Nero Vision might fail to understand or read the internal flag, and so when loaded in. If the aspect ratio of your video file it taller than 4:3 (eg. more like 5:4), then setting Nero Vision to "4:3" mode (in the video configuration section) might mean that Nero adds black borders to the left and right to make the video 4:3. If you set the option to 16:9, then it will add black borders to the top and bottom as well. Neither of these will look right, and it's mainly because the input video's resolution is one that Nero Vision fails to treat properly (this is more of a Nero Vision bug, which seems to add borders to the left and right in 16:9 mode, when it shouldn't).

So assuming the native AR of your video is 1.85:1 (or thereabouts), then my suggestion is that in Avid, export your video to a resolution of 720x480 (if it is an NTSC clip, ie. it has a framerate of 23.976/24/29.97/30 FPS or multiples of these) or 720x576 (PAL clip, with framerate of 25 or a multiple of this), with the same options as you used before (16:9 anamorphic QuickTime). Now load the video into Nero Vision and use the 4:3 mode (in the preview, the video should look too tall). Encode it to a set of DVD files, and then edit the DVD IFO files using this IfoEdit method. Test again in PowerDVD, and hopefully, it should look correct now with the "keep aspect ratio" option turned on.

I'm still not 100% convinced that Nero Vision treats input videos properly (Nero Vision seems to always want to add a top/bottom border to the videos I've tested, even in 720x576), so perhaps using another DVD authoring tool is a better idea.

I like TMPGEnc DVD Author (TDA) - when you load a video file in it, it will actually ask you to specify the AR of the video file with a preview to show you. TDA doesn't support making anamorphic DVDs though, but you can make one yourself with the help of this IfoEdit method:

1. Load in your anamorphic video file, and select the PAL or NTSC 4:3 AR mode. Encode it as a DVD as usual in TDA (output to folder)

2. Use this IfoEdit method to set the 16x9 flag

3. Test in PowerDVD

[admin]

I read your thread but it won't let me respond on the other site so I'm responding here. You have the right info on the other page. Maybe Quicktime knows its anamorphic but Nero doesn't. But I thought on this page or another page on this site it said that Ifoedit could fix Nero DVD's. And that is fix the DVD after Nero adds the letterbox on top or the bars on the side. It seems what is happening is when I open the IFO file on my computer it shows the menu, I click the video and it plays the MPEG too wide. This is because Nero added the letterbox to the MPEG (distorting my original quicktime). When I open the MPEG directly with Power DVD (bypassing the IFO file) it plays it stretched (vertically) just like the DVD player. I spent all day yesterday trying every possible combination of numbers like 720X480, 720X540, 950X540, 648X486, 864X486, 640X480 and more and Nero does the same thing every time. I can't even get the 4:3 (640X480) quicktime files to fill the screen (because nero adds the letterbox). I set Nero to 4:3 and I load a 4:3 video and Nero adds the letterbox. This makes no sense to me. So it sounds now like Ifoedit cannot fix Nero DVDs. I would rather not have to get new DVD software since I already paid for Nero and its been too long to get a refund. But if I have to it's possible. Is there any free DVD authoring software out there that knows how to handle anamorphic 16:9 (I'm sure there isn't)? Or do I have to buy professional software and how much would that cost ($600)?

This IfoEdit method is not really to "fix" whatever bugs Nero Vision has, but rather, to allow anamorphic DVDs to be made after authoring in Nero Vision or TDA, and also to fix your DVD recorder recordings of widescreen content (most recorders don't allow you to set the anamorphic flag, and so you end up recording widescreen 16:9 content in 4:3 format).

However, from some testing, I've found that when loading in existing VOB (and possibly MPEG-2) sources, Nero doesn't suffer from the same problem. So a solution might be to use a freeware MPEG-2 encoder (or to output to MPEG-2 in Avid, if possible) to encode the files first to a DVD compliant MPEG-2 stresm, and then load them up in Nero Vision, author and then edit with IfoEdit to add the 16:9 flag. I tested using DVD Flick, and it worked well (DVD Flick is good because it allows you to manually override the AR or the input video - I set it to 4:3 to retain the anamorphic video) - unfortunately, DVD Flick is a big buggy.

[r0lZ]

Take care. With IfoEdit, you change the AR in the IFO files only. It is also in the VOB files. Theoretically, the IFOs have precedence, but some players cannot display a 16:9 video properly if the VOB files are flagged as 4:3.
To patch the VOB files, you can use DVDPatcher.

[joybreaker]

What about the menu flagging, I suppose the same goes for that as well you need to set the flags right if you have 16:9 menus?

Do we need to set the 16:9 flag for the menu at the VIDEO_TS.IFO file as well? I've authored a DVD in Encore having 16:9 menus, but the flag at the VIDEO_TS.IFO was as 4:3 like in the sample image (see the attachment) I have here for some reason. In the VTS_01_0.IFO etc. files the menu (even though they don't even have menus, so why is that?) aspect ratio setting was 4:3 as well...

PS. can the VOB file aspect ratio settings (as r0lZ referred to) be changed also with PGCEdit?

[r0lZ]

The menu AR is independent of the title AR. You don't need to change it. Furthermore, if you have menu buttons in a menu, you cannot safely change the AR, as the button highlights will be at the wrong position.

I don't know Encore, but perhaps it has an AR setting for the menus, and you have specified 16:9 only for the AR of the movie.

If there are no menus in VTS 1, 2, etc, the menu AR is not used, and must be 4:3.

You cannot change the VOB AR with PgcEdit. Use DVDPatcher (http://www.wincesoft.de/html/dvdpatcher.html).

[joybreaker]

Ok, so the VTS Menu attributes does stand for the DVD Menu attributes of the current VTS we are viewing right? What then is the actual "Video Manager Menu attributes" of the VIDEO_TS.IFO ?

As you said "If there are no menus in VTS 1, 2, etc, the menu AR is not used, and must be 4:3.", then this explains why it's like that for some of the VTS that don't have menus, fine.

In Encore you are able to choose the aspect ratio for the menu, or it actually recognizes it by itself and it checks the 16:9 option for it. But in another authored DVD project of mine, there is no 4:3 content in it at all, no 4:3 menus or 4:3 timelines, but only 1 VTS and the menus of it and the timeline of it are all in 16:9. Why there is still the "Video Manager Menu attributes" flagged as 4:3 (being the Video Menu Manager attributes in the VIDEO_TS.IFO)? And as it is so, would it then be OK to change the aspect ratio flag of it to 16:9 (letterbox) ?

I've also viewed other commercial titles with IFOedit and if they have 16:9 menus in them overall, their Video Menu Manager attributes of VIDEO_TS.IFO are also flagged as 16:9.

I would appreciate a lot if someone could clarify this...? Thanks.

[r0lZ]

VIDEO_TS.IFO holds the "Title Menu". It is global to the whole DVD, and should theoretically contains the menu that allows you to jump to any title in the DVD. It is almost never used that way in commercial DVDs, but you can certainly create a Title Menu with Encore.

If Encore can flag the menu as 16:9, then it's because there is a 16:9 flag in the MPEG file you provide. Of course, the MPEG file must have been encoded with that flag correctly set. Encore cannot automatically recognize the AR if the menu is made of still frames, as they do not have AR flags.

Again, if a menu has no video content (and therefore no VOB file) it must be in 4:3. Otherwise, the AR depends of the authoring you did. You cannot change it with PgcEdit (or IfoEdit) if it has menu buttons, or the highlights will be at wrong places.

[joybreaker]

r0lZ.

Any theory why the other commercial titles which have 16:9 menus have the VIDEO_TS.IFO Video Manager Menu flagged as 16:9 even if they have menu as their DVD TITLE? How come it is possible not screwing things up if the menu can't indentify itself as 16:9 if it is a still image? To be exact, DVD TITLE is the one where you get when you press the TITLE MENU button when viewing DVD from your remote controller, right? Well, at least in a test case the IFOedit recognized a intro video as the DVD TITLE from the IFOEdit's "DVD play" mode as I pushed there the DVD TITLE button, but when I watch the same DVD with normal DVD player the TITLE MENU button takes me to the actual main menu instead...? What's the logic in that?

Anyhow, I tested to change the VIDEO_TS.IFO from my own project's VIDEO_TS.IFO file to that 16:9 and it didn't at least in the IFOEdit's "DVD play" mode really change the button highlights at all? And this current menu is my first play on dvd and the TITLE BUTTON action takes always the user to this menu. After all, it really is a 16:9 menu, even though originally the IFOEdit has the 4:3 flag for it for some reason. IS it ok to change this Video Manager Menu attribute flag if it doen't mess up the DVD (at least how the dvd seems to work in a player) when you try to re-play it after the change? Meaning, is it against the rules and "not legal" to do so?

Hope you bear with me, trying to just get this cleared up once for all.

[r0lZ]

Yes, the Title menu is accessed by clicking the Title Menu button. Most of the time, the Title menu PGC is just a dummy, that calls the Root menu of the main VTS. In this case, there are no difference between the Root Menu and the Title Menu buttons.

In commercial DVDs, the other PGCs of the VMGM are usually filled with intros, logos, FBI warnings, and junk, but rarely with real menus with buttons. Of course, if the VMGM has some video content and even if it doesn't have real menus with buttons, the AR flags are meaningful. It's only if it has no video content at all (no VIDEO_TS.VOB) that the flags are meaningless, and must be 4:3 to be standard compliant.

I haven't said that a DVD cannot identify a still image as 16:9. It's the purpose of the flags in the IFO, and the AR is also written in the VOB when the still image is converted to VOB format. I just wanted to say that the authoring program (Encore in your case) cannot guess the aspect ratio of a still image, and therefore that you have to specify it manually when you build your project.

Changing the AR flag of the VMGM has probably no effect on your DVD because your menu is authored in a VTSM domain. The VMGM probably contains just nothing, or only dummies that call the VTSM menu.

If you want to understand that, I strongly suggest you use PgcEdit instead of IfoEdit, as PgcEdit offers a much more clear view of the organization of the DVD, and it can simulate the DVD playback. It will be (relatively) easy for you to understand what happens when you click the Title menu, and you will see exactly which PGCs are played and when, and in which domains they reside. Furthermore, you should understand that I prefer to explain the DVD insides using the terminology and the GUI of PgcEdit. I am its author, after all! (BTW, IfoEdit is not at all a bad program. But it is an extremely low-level monitor, difficult to understand and to master, especially for a newbie.)

Again, you cannot change the AR of a menu with buttons. You will easily see if the menu has buttons with PgcEdit (but it's impossible in IfoEdit.) In the PGC selector pane, a PGC with buttons has the number of buttons in its label. For example VTSM 2, LU 1 (en), 3 (1:03) 4b means that the third PGC of the first language unit of the VTSM menu of VTS 2 has video content (duration 1:03) and has 4 buttons. You will know for sure that you can't change the AR of VTSM 2.

BTW, to change the AR of a domain with PgcEdit, just right-click on any PGC of that domain, and select "Domain Stream Attributes". The flags will be modified in the IFO of the current VTS and in VIDEO_TS.IFO, in one operation. (You have to edit both files with IfoEdit.)

[joybreaker]

r0lZ,

To summarize: would you say it is safe to change the AR of the Video Manager Menu in my project, as the DVD Title menu has been set to the main menu, which is a 16:9 menu with a 16:9 video background? Even though Encore has not flagged it as 16:9 (in the VIDEO_TS.IFO Video Manager Menu attribute viewed in IFOEdit) for some reason , and if it doesn't mess anything up, at least as the DVD works the way it should in my DVD Player still after the change? Also in other words, would you be able to see it somewhere afterwards if the AR change is not legal or messing something up?

[r0lZ]

I really don't know without seeing your DVD. If you want more info, load it in PgcEdit, and go to Info -> PGC Params and Cells Tables, and copy the output here. (If it is too long, upload the text file somewhere and post the link here.)
Or just post a screenshot of the left pane of the PgcEdit main window.

[joybreaker]

I really don't know without seeing your DVD. If you want more info, load it in PgcEdit, and go to Info -> PGC Params and Cells Tables, and copy the output here. (If it is too long, upload the text file somewhere and post the link here.)
Or just post a screenshot of the left pane of the PgcEdit main window.
Thanks a lot. I really appreciate this a lot.
The both infos are here as attachment. Would do you say?
This is the unchanged info, so I've not yet changed the AR in this example, I hope this is enough or do you need this info after the change?

[r0lZ]

No, it's (probably) enough. But I have to wait till a moderator approves your attachments. If I forgot to reply, please post a new message!

[joybreaker]

Ok the files are up.

[r0lZ]

OK, as you can see in the screenshot, all menus with buttons are in VTSM 1. Therefore, you cannot change the AR of that domain. The subpics seems to have been made for a 16:9 menu (displayed in letterboxed format on a 4:3 TV.) Therefore, the domain stream attributes flag should be 16:9 letterboxed. If it's not the case, change the flags with PgcEdit, but test carefully on a standalone with a RW. You should test in all modes supported by your TV: change the settings of yous DVD player to 4:3 (supported by all TVs), and if you have a 16:9 TV, try also the 16:9 modes, letterboxed and pan&scan. Plays the menu in all cases, and watch the highlights.

In the VMGM, all PGCs have a dummy tiny black cell, that is probably never really played. Since that domain has video contents but no buttons, you can safely set the 16:9 flag, but if the cells are never played, you will never notice the difference.

[joybreaker]

Seems to be that the domain stream attributes of the VTSM1 are all 16:9 letterboxed. So, as I change VMGM attributes to 16:9 letterbox with IFOEdit (PGCEdit doesn't seem to let me change the domain stream attributes when I view the VMGM domain streams after I've opened by double clicking the VMGM in the left pannel - or can they be edited from somewhere else?), but anyhow IFOedit seems to change this.

Ok, so that's now changed to 16:9 letterbox, is there anywhere left anything that could be messing the DVD MENU aspect ratio to something else than the 16:9 letterbox as it's defined now?

[r0lZ]

BTW, to change the AR of a domain with PgcEdit, just right-click on any PGC of that domain, and select "Domain Stream Attributes". The flags will be modified in the IFO of the current VTS and in VIDEO_TS.IFO, in one operation. (You have to edit both files with IfoEdit.)
Normally, the information in the IFOs have precedence, so if they are good, that should be sufficient. But remember that you have to modify them in TWO places with IfoEdit. Or use PgcEdit, as explained above.

You might also want to fix the AR in the VOB files with DVDPatcher, but normally that's not necessary.

[joybreaker]

r0lZ, thank you so much.
Changing this VMGM AR flag fixed a problem I had with one TV DVD set not able to adjust the menus to 16:9. Changing this flag of the VMGM fixed this. So it looks like some DVDs / TVs take the VMGM in to account when deciding which display mode it will use, most do not. Anyhow, it seems this is the way it should be in the VMGM the flag (matching the menus' AR). At least for some systems it seems to define the display mode for each menu (so I guess when a menu loads it first asks VMGM which mode to use?), and this is the way it is at least in all the other commercial DVDs I've checked out so far.

[NathanC]

Many thanks for this fantastic walkthrough. I followed your instructions and it worked perfectly. I just have a small, perhaps unrelated, question. What is the best software to use to burn the material to your computer before you can begin this process? I used DVDFab on a disc containing two recorded episodes but only the second one burned successfully. What could I be doing wrong?

[r0lZ]

Welcome to the forum, NathanC!

What do you mean exactly by "burn the material to your computer"?

If you have already copied (and possibly modified) the DVD files on your hard disc, I strongly suggest you use ImgBurn to burn a DVD+R.

If you want to copy the files of the original DVD to your hard disc, you have to use a decrypter/ripper program, but it is forbidden to help users on that subject on this forum. Sorry.

It is also possible to copy the original DVD directly to a DVD+R if you have two drives, but I don't recommend doing that, as the quality of the burn is usually bad, and you cannot verify and modify the DVD before burning it.

Anyway, burning a DVD is not related to the aspect ratio problem that is the subject of this thread.

[inanimateman]

Hi r0lZ, ladies, gentlemen... apologies for resurecting a 16:9 question... I posted this recently in the AVID off topic forum (I put it there because DVDit came bundled with AVID media composer), but haven't had any success with any advice so far and I wondered if you might be able to help...

"I'm trying to create a 16:9 DVD with a fairly simple static menu ... several lines of text with a button next to each line, so you can jump to the relevent chapter. I'm using the subpicture to highlight the button selections and activations. The DVD menu looks 16:9 in most of the DVD players i've tried so far (some i've had to set manually to display the correct aspect ratio). I've tried the DVD with various methods of playback and have noticed that in software players such as PowerDVD windows media etc. the menu is displayed 4:3.... so text and buttons are stretched long and thin (however, all of the sub picture highlights line up ok, still stretched, and the video content plays 16:9 as intended when a button selection is made).

In an attempt to make the 'Menu' and associated video content appear 16:9, I've used IFOedit to change the aspect ratio of the Video Manager attributes in the IFO file on the DVD to 16:9 / pan-scan & letterboxed, so now when I play the DVD in software players and dvd players with widescreen TV's attached, both Menu and video all appear 16:9... here's the BUT...
...i thought I'd try it on my 4:3 television to see if the letterbox / pan scan displayed correctly - the background image was fine... but the sub picture highlights were in the wrong place, they looked like they were still positioned for 4:3.

There doesn't appear to be a way of forcing the sub picture to 16:9, and I've found an article on the web that mentioned if the Main DVD menu (VMGM?) does not have video content it needs to be 4:3 to be standard compliant anyway? [I understand why this is now after reading r0lZ's post!]

I'm jumping through the hoops because the DVD is likely to be duplicated many times and I was trying to cover as many bases for the variety of viewing options available.

The project was shot 16:9 with pixel size of 720x576, and I'm using one of the backgrounds used in the video (exported as a TIFF into PS CS) as the basis for the menu. I've used the stretch option in DVDit PRO 6 so that when played back on a 16:9 monitor it looks correct, with all the text and buttons being title safe.

Any thoughts? I'm currently planning to go back to the original version (before I messed about with the IFO file on the DVD, but without solving the problem)... if there is recognised way of doing what I'm trying to achieve, it'd be great to find out.

I'm thinking - those who release commercial DVD titles (or those who just understand DVD authoring better than i do) must have this one covered ???

Thanks in advance"



After reading the other posts in this thread, I've realised the AR flag I've changed was not the right thing to do as the subpicture is now displayed incorrectly in some cases...


Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[r0lZ]

After reading the other posts in this thread, I've realised the AR flag I've changed was not the right thing to do as the subpicture is now displayed incorrectly in some cases...Right, that might be the problem.

A 16:9 menu must have the letterboxed or pan&scan flag set, or both.

On a 16:9 TV, the video will be shown fullscreen anyway, and the flag is ignored.

On a 4:3 TV, if you have set only one flag, that display mode will be forced. So, in your case, I guess you want to set the letterbox flag, and leave the pan&scan flag clear, to display the menu in 16:9 with horizontal black borders. When both flags are set, the player should use the preferred mode the user has configured via its setup menu.

You must also know that if the menu is encoded in 4:3, only the standard 4:3 mode is used, and the letterbox and pan&scan flags are ignored. The 16:9 TVs should display the 4:3 menu in 4:3, with vertical black borders. That's the easier case, as only one mode must be "programmed".

But if the menu is 16:9, you have to define several "groups" for the menu buttons. One gorup for the 16:9 TV, and one group for the 4:3 TV in letterbox mode AND/OR one group for the 4:3 TV in pan&scan mode. So, there must be 3 groups if both flags are set. Otherwise, a group must be defined for the right mode. That means that a 16:9 menu must have 2 or 3 groups.

Furthermore, each group must have its own subpic stream. So, if you set the letterbox flag only, you must have a subpic for the 16:9 mode, and one subpic for the 4:3 letterboxed mode.

This is necessary because the player must stretch the image according to the TV type and, if it is a 4:3 TV, to the current lb or p&s mode. But the subpic streams are NEVER stretched by the player. They are simply displayed as they are over the stretched video. Similarly, the X and Y positions of the rectangle enclosing the buttons are used unmodified, so the values must be different in each group, to cover the right oprtion of the stretched image.

It is not easy to change the display mode after having generated the menu, as you have to change the content of the subpic stream. Although you can theoretically do it with DVDSubEdit, I think is is much more simple to recreate the menu from scratch. Just be sure to use an authoring program that supports the 16:9 menus, and to select the right display mode as soon as possible.

[inanimateman]

3rd time lucky (seemed to have lost the last couple of attempts to reply)

Hi r0IZ, thanks for getting back so quickly....

I've read through your reply several times to get my head around it, thank you for such an amazing detailed response.

But if the menu is 16:9, you have to define several "groups" for the menu buttons. One gorup for the 16:9 TV, and one group for the 4:3 TV in letterbox mode AND/OR one group for the 4:3 TV in pan&scan mode. So, there must be 3 groups if both flags are set. Otherwise, a group must be defined for the right mode. That means that a 16:9 menu must have 2 or 3 groups.

I'm bit stuck with where I need to make the actual changes to achieve my objective, if I explain how I got to where I am with the menu at present it might help..

The graphic for the menu was produced in Photoshop CS using the PAL D1/DV Widescreen square pixel preset (pixel dimensions are 1024x768). The subpicture was just a straight copy of the buttons from the graphic, but changed to a solid red then layer merged with a white background. This Subpicture layer then sits above the flattened graphic image with the original buttons, so top layer (subpicture) buttons line up bob on with the graphic layer buttons on the layer beneath.

In DVDit, I dragged appropriately sized marquees around each button area and text beside it, then linked them to the appropriate chapter with the 'use subpicture' option selected.

Is the 'groups' bit you mentioned this whole process, so have a number of menu's one that plays 4:3 displaying correctly and one that plays 16:9
again displaying correctly... do I need to create the graphics with sub picture layers that line up for both these cases and then somehow give the viewer the option to select the right viewing option before getting any further into the DVD?

DVDit is perhaps part of the problem and my mis-understanding being the rest of it!

[r0lZ]

Unfortunately, I don't know DVDit, so I can't explain how to use it.

What I have explained above is the theory of the DVD-Video specs. A good authoring program should simplify the procedure, and for example, generate the 2 or 3 groups and subpics automatically from the given material. I'm not sure how DVDit works exactly, but anyway, the final size of the background image or video is always 720x576 (or 704x576), and never 1024x768. So, I suppose it resizes the image back to the right format. If it can do that, it should also adapt the position and size of the button highlights, and create the right groups. So, I guess you should try to find where you can specify that you want to use the letterbox mode only, and be sure to set that setting correctly before generating the DVD. For example, with DVD-Lab Pro, that setting is in the Project Properties. I can't do much more for you, but if you cannot find how to change that setting, I suggest you post that question in a forum specific to DVDit.

[inanimateman]

Its ok... I very much appreciate your assistance...i mentioned the process I used because it was the only way I could think of, to describe how I arrived at the 16:9 menu I had. V good point about how DVDit seems to handle a 1024x768 image... so I'm going take some more time to go through the various options again to see if I've missed something in the authoring package. Its always a bit of a rush at the end of a project... its really helpful that there's some useful utilities out there, and chaps such as yourself who are generous with their time to offer advice.

Thanks again and if I sort it, I'll post to let you know.