What's the deal w/HTML?

[dr_ml422]

I just finished reading several articles regarding HTML, and still haven't been able to discern what it's all about really. Aside from it being some web standard used for Webmasters for more compatibility w/browsers, I'm not sure how it's actually affecting my browsing. I ask because like I mentioned in the free software thread, when I used Gmail in basic HTML it didn't give me any error message about"experiencing technical difficulties" upon closing in my chat area. Though you won't get any of the nice features of Gmail in basic HTML. So what gives? They haven't got it right or they're supposed new HTML 5. something they're working on is incomplete?

Admin it must be frustrating as a webmaster to deal w/all this stuff, especially as 1 guy pointed out about having to adjust to every new version of IE, and also make it still compatible w/the older ones. Seems MS is hopping onboard the departure from the real standard and joining Google etc... for a newer one. Now if IE 8 is supposedly last of its kind in the IE line and MS is coming out w/something totally different, I guess things would straighten out, or get more screwed across the board. MS isn't into this for the peolple's sake either so who knows.

Please shed some light on this anyone. Thnx.

[admin]

The basic HTML option in gmail I think has more to do with the use of additional scripting languages like Javascript or Ajax, which powers all the fancy features like built-in spell checker, in-page editing, rich formating and all these things that normal HTML cannot achieve on its own. The basic HTML option is the most compatible, as many older browsers, browsers for mobile devices and non standard ones do not support the newer languages (or if they do, it doesn't work in the right way that gmail expects).

About your specific error, have you tried this?

http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=82447

To be fair, Microsoft is getting a lot better with playing the standards game in terms of IE. Compatibility is much less of an issue these days compared to the days of IE4 and Netscape.

Also, I came upon this website a while ago, which shows you what modern websites look like in old browsers, and you can see how far things have come in the last few years:

http://browsershots.org/

[dr_ml422]

Ok. 1. I've tried that in the link and upon closing still shows the error message briefly.

2. By basic HTML option in Gmail, you mean specifically for Gmail? It has to be because according to what I've read the newer 5.1 etc... or w/e is non-standard and so it can't be basic. If it's non-standard and not basic then what I gather is that by additional scripting languages you don't mean newer ones, but the inclusion of older ones that came w/the original HTML correct?

3. IE is playing the standards game? What's the standard for HTML if the 5 series is non-standard and a departure from the original? Do you mean IE/MS is getting a lot better w/the newer non-standard that Google etc... have been implementing? Normal and Basic? Can you please help me w/the difference between Normal and Basic? I thought the basic was standard and hence normal?

Google is a non standard browser. If Gmail is having issues w/its own browser w/the newer nonstandard than the guys writing this Gmail/Google are even more of a bunch of knuckle heads. Why would you put something out that doesn't work right w/your own browser? If I missed something please tell me. Right now this doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

[admin]

HTML didn't come with any scripting support, it's all be added on later. The "basic HTML" option of Gmail basically doesn't use advanced scripting to ensure maximum compatibility, either with old browsers or browser without the full scripting support (some are also disabled by security policies). This "basic HTML" doesn't really have anything to do with standards, it's all just Google's way of having a "basic" version of the site for compatibility reasons.

In fact, this forum also comes with its own "basic" version, the "nojs" (no Javascript) version - you can test it out here:

http://forum.digital-digest.com/index.php?nojs=1

It will still largely look the same, but you will notice things like the drop down search box and in-page editing are all gone. This is vBulletin's way of doing what Google did with "basic HTML".

So it's not related to the issue of HTML compatibility really, but more about the use of advanced scripting (that is, only a bit or quite a lot, and Gmail gives you the option to select which one you can use).

The whole HTML 5 thing is a different issue altogether, but all the major browsers will support it. In the bad old days, Microsoft would add their own HTML codes that only IE supported, and was ignored by the other browsers as it wasn't in the HTML standards. For example, they added things like being able to change the colour of the scroll bars in your browser, but that only worked in certain versions of IE). Microsoft had hoped this would force other browser makers to use Microsoft's version of HTML, but eventually had to back down (the various lawsuits probably convinced them to do it). So now nobody is adding their own tags to the HTML standards, which is good for web designers, but of course, each browser still renders the HTML differently and so sites still look different in different browsers (for example, some fonts are larger, some are smaller, size of text boxes are different ...), but the differences won't make the site unusable, which is what having a standard is all about.

[dr_ml422]

Well obviously Google hasn't spruced up the use of the advanced scripting languages then, else Gmail wouldn't come up w/these errors. I hit the link for DVF in the basic version. Yes it's almost same, but lacking drop down etc...

Ever since I started w/XP and IE though I did see the Java script, but it had to be downloaded. That cup of coffee icon. Is this what you mean by the scripts being added later on for support?

So as of right now Gmail is not fully supported by the newer languages and for all intensive purposes is like a Beta? Has to be or they wouldn't have issues w/their own browser. FF then doesn't fully support Gmail? These guys don't work together? Why would Gmail not be compatible w/its own browser?

[admin]

I suspect it's something specific on your system, like your security software (the article I linked hinted at security software problems, so you may need to add "https://mail.google.com" to your security software's white list), perhaps a browser add-on if you're using FF. The link I gave you allows you to contact Google if you select "No, I tried the secure site ..." option.

[dr_ml422]

I cleaned the cache and everything else then restarted the computer and did the https link to open Gmail. It worked. I guess sometimes it might not. No biggie. As long as I have no virus.

I will start using IE more often w/7. Right now I'm using XP Home and IE 6. Even though it has Bing I'm guessing Bing does better w/8. I made the mistake of upgrading IE before. Not a good idea, so I'll leave things as is and pick up w/7 64.

[admin]

If you can live without the IE/FF add-ons, I suggest trying Chrome.

[dr_ml422]

I might just start using Chrome. I only use No Script and Ad Block Plus so it's not a biggie w/add-ons. I'm dedicating time slots to different PC related stuff this time. Might as well throw Chrome in. It's going to be a OS anyway. Thnx.


Awesome. Nice themes. Way faster than FF, and ease of use. I'll be playing w/Chrome now and learning the features.

[admin]

Yes, Chrome's speed is what made me decide to use it as my main browser, even though it does lack some of features I had gotten used to in the other browsers. The way it handles tabs, like being able to drag them out to their own window (and back) is also very nice,

[dr_ml422]

As long as it's safe and efficient, I could live w/Chrome. Very simple interface and learning curve. I'll just learn some of the shortcuts etc... that'll make it that much better.