No Audio - TMPGEnc/DVD Lab

[rsquirell]

I've found that 320X480CBR @ 2400kbps looks almost as good as 720X480VBR @8000/7000kbps...the only difference I can see is that the file size is 1/3 as large.

[turet]

Hey rsquirell,

I tried taking one of my TMPGEnc-encoded files and running it through TMPGE DVD Author. Still no sound.

Let me ask you something. In the encoding program, there are lines to select files for video and audio. Since I've got a multiplexed Mpeg, I've just been inputting the video. I haven't had a problem doing this with any other program, but could this be the source of my problem? Is it expecting me to input audio separately somehow?

I'm about to give up on Adaptec's VideOH DVD capture device. But I'm not sure this will help the problem.

If I decide to do this, I really don't want to spend a fortune on the Radeons and whatnot. I've got a GeForce 3 videocard that is plenty good for my daily uses. I'm not a gamer. I also don't intend to hook my TV up to the computer directly. I don't have digital cable, so this isn't really paramount.

Pinnacle has an internal capture card for about $85. Even has video-out, which my Adaptec device doesn't, which might be handy.

What do you think? Any problems with something like that? Do you think it will make any difference vs the Adaptec device/Sonic MyDVD software I'm using now?


Thanks, as always!

[setarip]

"Since I've got a multiplexed Mpeg, I've just been inputting the video. I haven't had a problem doing this with any other program, but could this be the source of my problem?"

Nope - not if you input a valid multiplexed MPEG file into "TMPGEnc DVD Author"...

[ormonde]

"I tried taking one of my TMPGEnc-encoded files and running it through TMPGE DVD Author. Still no sound. "

Two questions.

1. In TMPGEnc DVD Author, under "create new project" get "file" you load your mpeg, do you see, under the clip information window, anything under "Audio Settings" or is it just blank?

2. Have you tried to test output the mpeg from DVD Author, and attempted the play it with your computer's DVD playing software to check and see if the sound is there?

[Micha1138]

Hi folks,

I´m having the same problems with the audio track(s) out of sync after capturing with the Adaptec VideOH!DVD AVC-2210. The problem I think is, that it outputs mpegs, with the hardware-enocder controlled by settings made in MyDVD!4.0.4 . It really drives me nuts, since I have to get a showreel-dvd together, and time is running out. I already gave an Avertech EZmaker back in favour of the Adaptec device. Any advice or recommendation on external encoders? BTW, I am working on a laptop with an AMD2400+, ATI Rad9K, 512MB Ram, 60GB Harddisk, external DVD-Burner NEC-1300D. And i´m doing everything in PAL, since I live in germany.

Happy New Year !!!

Michael

[rsquirell]

MPEGs have no industry-wide standards thus allowing manufacturers to make up their own. I know with my capture device (DVC-150) Dazzle intentionally screwed with the video headers (as well as recording with LPCM audio) to screw you up if you tried to use any software other than Dazzle's to capture or render. I suspect other manufacturers also follow the Dazzle example. You can adjust synch in VirtualDubMod or TMPGenc...and if your capture is LinearPCM you can reduce video size by 1/3 by converting it with TMPGenc.

[turet]

Micha1138, I'm sorry I didn't figure this out in time to help you with your project. It's only taken me over a month, but here's the story on using VideOh. I think my Sonic MyDVD version is 4.75, but it's probably very similar to your version.

Forget trying to use TMPGEnc to encode the Mpegs created by VideOh and Sonic as DVD-complaint files. Although all the various programs I tried did identify that there was audio there, and everything seemed to be in order, I could not get the audio track to play correctly using any of the many programs I tried.

However, when reading something on this board, I discovered that the 4.X versions of Sonic MyDVD can output VOBs to a file folder on the hard drive. Go Tools/Make DVD Folder and click OK. You can trim the beginning and end of your video, while you're in there, but that version of MyDVD won't do much more than that. Go ahead and output the VOBs.

Then, import them into TMPGE DVD Author where you can edit and add chapter points. I had been happy with the capabilities of Ulead's Video Studio 7, but discovered that when telling it to apply chapter points at intervals or a certain number per video, the audio and video tracks got out of sync. (I didn't experience this when I inputted them individually, but that was a very time consuming process which had to be done separately from the process of editing material like commercials out, and not necessary for all my projects.)

I did not have the sync problem when using TMPGE DVD Author, so I recommend that.

I was mostly concerned with finding a way to compress the files, and if you need to do this, then take the VOBs created by TMPGE DVD Author and run then through DVD Shrink. Then use your DVD burning software to actually burn the disk.

I have had great success with this. Only took me forever to figure it out. And somewhere in there I had a bad case of the flu and had to drop my little explorations.

Thanks again to everyone on this board who helped!

[Micha1138]

VideOh! works at last !!!

Hi turet,
thanks a lot for your reply.

After endlessly sifting through the information flood called the internet I finally found a solution fr each and (almost) every problem I have had with the AVC-2210.

First, audio being out of sync :
The solution to this was to use the separate audio out lines of one of my vcr´s. Apparently the audiosignal is somehow delayed when travelling through a scart-to-composite cinch adapter. I still use the scart adapter to grab the video signal.
This works really fine, no sync problems at all.

Second, the lack of control over the device :
When I foolishly believed that I could possibly capture from the Adaptec VideOh!DVD AVC-2210 device using win xp´s own movie maker I came across a little box that contained switches to set the capture mode (all !!! available NTSC, PAL, SECAM standards ). Unfortunately, there was no way to start a capture since the program aborted with an "unknown error" . HAHAHAHA !!! I couldnt believe what I saw, since this is obviously and intentionally just Adaptec´s way to keep their customers from using their product with another video application. You can imagine that I was really furious about this !!!

So I went back to the web and searched for hours and hours for a description of the chipset in use. I didnt find anything, so I opened (yes, I was very desperate) the device. And what did I find? A DvXcel CHip by LSI Technology, the same chipset used in the Dazzle AVC 150 !!! Ooookay, where can I get that infamous DVXCEL test utility every Dazzle user raves about ? At Dazzle website, but only after hours searching for a site where I don´t need a product ID. Can you imagine that you almost cannot download the driver you need without regeistering and disclosing information about yourself ??? At last I had the Dazzle driver and the utility. But It wouldn´t work saying "no dvxcel device found". Man, I was shattered.

But then I found someone mentioning a utility to analyse media streams and capture them called GRAPHEDIT .
I bet that most of you guys know about it, but for those who don´t :
THis thing offers complete control over the caoturing device !!!
After a bit of try and error I figured out how to build a graph (that is what they call when placing dependent device filters in a working order). It is very much like building a flowchart diagram.

You can control coloursaturation, contrast, brightness of the videostream, you can even set the device to use vbr instead of cbr (although I have yet to check the functionality of this future ) since the dvxcel chip is said to have that feature. you can set the audio encoding bit rate, actually everthing one really needs for profesisonal captures. For example I tried to capture SW: ANH, and the scenes on tatooine with a very high brightness werent usable, since everything was way to bright when using the settings provided by MyDVD. But now you have a way to set everything while capturing. It is very great to have the MyDVD running, showing the video that you want to capture in the preview window, and by having Graphedit running and the "Adaptec USB capture device" filter loaded you can change the settings way you want. And even while capturing you can change most of the settings like colour and saturation.

But find out for yourself. You have to load the filters provided by Adaptec and then link them together. I havent figured out everthing yet, but the program is very much selfexplanatory, and the function "render graph" sometimes provides an automatic setup to get the device working. I yet have to figure a lot of stuff out and would love to hear from folks who already have experence with the GRAPHEDIT tool and capturing.

What I want to do is e.g. use a different LPCM COnverter than the one provided by sonic, and maybe one of you folks out there knows how to build a filter graph for the captruing while using different encoders e.g. tmpenc´s, so the data stream is converted on the fly. Especially the sound conversion issues. But I am no programmer, so I need a little help. Anyone ???

Okay, lets come to an end and close this thread, It is time for me to get my reel together and then I am off to capturing my newly bought classic(!) Star wars LDs from 1993 before they rot away.

Thanks to everyone who helped,
Michael

[turet]

Micha1138, thanks for your excellent notes. You are much more of a techno-geek than I am.

>The solution to this was to use the separate audio out lines of one of my vcr´s. Apparently the audiosignal is somehow delayed when travelling through a scart-to-composite cinch adapter. I still use the scart adapter to grab the video signal.
This works really fine, no sync problems at all.

I have no idea what a scart-to-composite cinch adapter is. I've been using the audio patchcord supplied with VideOh, but I substituted a gold dubbing cable for the video connection, since that would supply a better signal.

>But then I found someone mentioning a utility to analyse media streams and capture them called GRAPHEDIT .
I bet that most of you guys know about it, but for those who don´t :
THis thing offers complete control over the caoturing device !!!
After a bit of try and error I figured out how to build a graph (that is what they call when placing dependent device filters in a working order). It is very much like building a flowchart diagram.

So you aren't using Sonic at all? This replaces it? Are there any instructions on how to set up the graph? Is it pretty simple?

> It is very great to have the MyDVD running, showing the video that you want to capture in the preview window, and by having Graphedit running and the "Adaptec USB capture device" filter loaded you can change the settings way you want. And even while capturing you can change most of the settings like colour and saturation.

Are you having MyDVD running, so you've got a monitor of your material, but not actually capturing? Then you've got the other program running simultaneously, doing the actual capturing, right?

>But find out for yourself. You have to load the filters provided by Adaptec and then link them together. I havent figured out everthing yet, but the program is very much selfexplanatory, and the function "render graph" sometimes provides an automatic setup to get the device working. I yet have to figure a lot of stuff out and would love to hear from folks who already have experence with the GRAPHEDIT tool and capturing.

The filters provided by adaptec....???? Where/how?

>What I want to do is e.g. use a different LPCM COnverter than the one provided by sonic, and maybe one of you folks out there knows how to build a filter graph for the captruing while using different encoders e.g. tmpenc´s, so the data stream is converted on the fly. Especially the sound conversion issues. But I am no programmer, so I need a little help. Anyone ???

Do you have a problem with Sonic's audio converter? My sound has seemed fine. Or did you feel that your synch issues had to do with their converter?

>Okay, lets come to an end and close this thread, It is time for me to get my reel together and then I am off to capturing my newly bought classic(!) Star wars LDs from 1993 before they rot away.

Haha. Top of my stack of video's right here is a Star Wars Special Edition that I taped off Sci-Fi Channel. Is LucasFilm ever going to release this thing to DVD?

Great investigations, Michael, thanks!

[Micha1138]

Hi turet,

over here in Germayn vcr´s with separate composite output for stereo audio and video are pretty rare, and only s-vhs-vcr´s have an s-video-out. SCART, also called "Euro-AV" is just another "euro-thing", like the brits have their cars steering wheels on the right side )). So I have to take the video-signal from the scart-connector. A Scart-connector also has pins for audio and even a "power line" to make a tv automatically switch to its AV-Channel if there is a signal from the vcr. I assume that the inventors had in mind to just bundle all connecting cables together. Soooo, every one from the states or outside of Europe, don´t bother about the scart connecting issues.

As far as I know, the gold connectors are only a myth, especially when used with a standard issue off the shelf vhs-vcr. And since vhs-tapes dont have the resolution of a dvd (just browse the forum, I actually didnt know that until 4 weeks ago ) ) I dont think that a better connection really matters. Pr did you really feel that the quality has improved while using the gold connectors ?

Sorry that I didn´t describe it clear enough, but yes, that is the first way to do it. I discovered that changes applied to the controls open in graphedit affected the capture made in MyDVD.

The so called filters will be listed in the "GRAPH/INSERT FILTERS"-menupoint in graphedit. After opening that menupoint you will find all installed filters, e.g. "audio capture sources", "audio compressors", "audio renderers" etc. from there you just pic everything you need.

Begin with the "WDM Streaming Capture Devices"/"Adaptec USB Capture Device". After you have inserted it into the Graphedit workspace left-click on it and choose filter properties and PRONTOPRESTO!!! instant control over brightness/contrast/colour hue/saturation, video standard etc etc.

I also had managed a complete capturing graph, with an output file defined and everything, except the ability to monitor what I was capturing, but unfortunately I lost the configuration, the system froze and all was lost (. But I think I will give it another try this evening and will let you know.

It would just be a nifty feature to be able to choose another converter since I do not trust SONIC too much. Since they didnt include the AVC-2210 in the compatibility list when mydvd 5 was released, and only support it for a few weeks now, I have the feeling they do not care too much about the qualitiy of their generic application for this particular product.


I dont think that GL will ever publish those originally released versions of his own will, but maybe the fan bases demand is strong enough for a classic edition. rumors out there say that he wants to tinker with the old versions again, e.g. replacing old anakin-whatsisname-actor with aged-anakin-hayden-christensen. would make sense, but i dont think that its necessary. btw, i watched sw:anh for countless times, but only yesterday(!) I understood that the death star at the beginning of anh is a totally top secret project hidden from the senate. the pieces are starting to fall in place to make the big puzzle of story work at last ! ))

Greetings,
Michael

[Micha1138]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGG GHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Prior to my last psoting I had bought a new VCR today, and guess what :

while connecting the audio out to the Videoh! unit ...

IN A FLASH OF LIGHT IT WENT UP IN FLAMES !!!!!!!
THE AUDIO CINCH ALMOST GOT WELDED TO THE CONNECTOR OF THE DEVICE !!!!!!!!!! IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO BELIEVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do not know yet if it is the vcr´s fault or the videoh unit had been short circuited, i have to find out. I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS !!!

I WILL PERSONALLY GO TO ADAPTEX HEADQUARTERS IN MUNICH THIS MONDAY AND DELIVER THEM THEIR PIECE OF JUNK BACK, or maybe i will do so with lg, if their vcr is the source of the problem...

DAMN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[turet]

>IN A FLASH OF LIGHT IT WENT UP IN FLAMES !!!!!!!

AARGH!!! I'm so sorry! They always say to power-off everything before making connections, and I usually get lazy about doing that. Of course, if it was a short, you might have gone up in flames anyway.

> SCART, also called "Euro-AV" is just another "euro-thing",

Oh good, one less thing I have to learn about.

> I dont think that a better connection really matters. Pr did you really feel that the quality has improved while using the gold connectors ?

I only used the Adaptec ones briefly, and I didn't notice a big difference when I switched, but at the time I was mired in software issues and wasn't paying much attention. I'd have to do a side-by-side comparison to really see. The critical thing isn't the gold tips, although they sound like a good idea, just on general principles. I was more interested in using the dubbing cable because it is much wider than the puny little Adaptec cable. Less impedence (however you spell that). Like the difference between using thin speak wire and the much more expensive "monster cables" when you hook up your stereo system.

At any rate, they were already out of the drawer and hooked up, so why not use them?


>I also had managed a complete capturing graph, with an output file defined and everything, except the ability to monitor what I was capturing, but unfortunately I lost the configuration, the system froze and all was lost (. But I think I will give it another try this evening and will let you know.

Great! Sonic seems to working well enough for what I'm doing at the moment, but I do have some tapes with quality picture issues and it would be nice to adjust saturation and contrast, etc, for those.

>It would just be a nifty feature to be able to choose another converter since I do not trust SONIC too much. Since they didnt include the AVC-2210 in the compatibility list when mydvd 5 was released, and only support it for a few weeks now, I have the feeling they do not care too much about the qualitiy of their generic application for this particular product.

I got my money back for the Deluxe MyDVD 5.0 Suite I'd bought, as it didn't support VideOh. By then I'd gotten Roxio, which can't run with the full MyDVD suite installed anyway. Wish I'd gotten Nero, but I needed the labeling software in Roxio in order to be compatible with my old files...long story.

When I called Sonic the first time, they told me they had no idea why the Deluxe suite wasn't working with VideOh. I specifically asked if they had a patch in development and the guy was supposed to get back to me, but never did. The next time I callled, the guy flat-out told me that they were no longer supporting analog at all. But then someone else there told me there was a new patch. He asked if I wanted to try it, and something in his voice told me he already knew it wouldn't work properly, so I said no and got my money back.

Thanks again, and sorry about your melt down.

[Micha1138]

Oh well, as I mentioned in another thread, now that the smoke has cleared (literally) I think about getting a hauppauge device pr even the dazzle one. well duh...

But I dont think it was the Videoh! but that cheap LG vcr. Usually each and every electronics device has to go through several stages of testing, and "ze germans" are very strict about regulations, but not even the american FCC sign can be found neither on the vcr itself nor in the manual. What a dangerous piece of junk at approx. 100 US $.

BTW, I just got a mail from Frey technologies (the folks who are making the sage tv capturing software) telling me this :
" Michael,

This device may get supported at some point in the future. We will
make any
updates to supported hardware on our website at
www.sage.tv/requirements.html once they are available "

Well, that is what I expect from folks who are interested in their customers.

And what a coincidence, just now on tv they are showing the movie "haunted hill" and one of the characters is being electrocuted...