DVD Movie Factory vs TMPENC DVD Author & DVD-Lab ????

[drosen001]

And also, checking over those 10 seconds using the Parse MPEG utility of DVD-Lab, I see several "Quant Matrix Extensions". Is this a coincidence that these frames are there?

These are normal parts of the MPEG stream. This is one of 2 different ways of specifying non-default quant matricies. In some streams they can be on every GOP, on others they appear infrequently as the decoder defaults to the last quant matrix used.

Why these only appear in one section of your file, I can't say, but they are not out of the ordinary.

Let me know how well VideoReDo works correcting your sync issues. We are continuing to improve that functionality on almost a daily basis as we receive more examples of strange MPEG streams. For example, I'm looking at one stream now that says its encoded at an NTSC frame rate of 29.97 FPS. Yet this was actually recorded at 25 FPS from a PAL source, go figure!

[sjdean]

You made VideoReDo? Well, I've just downloaded a copy of it. if I can get it to sort out my video for transcoding in TMPGEnc for example, I'll be very happy in making a purchase. I have a lot of VHS videos to copy, and the extra $50, compared to $400 dollars or something on a new card or TBC is well worth the money.

The reason why I bought up the Quant Matrix Extensions, is that they appear to be the only thing in the file when the synchronisation goes wrong.

That could just be wishful thinking though, but I had the hypothesis that somewhere at this point, such as with the Quant Matrix Extensions, that the decoder for the editing program (such as TMPGEnc) is getting confused and cutting a frame of video out), and then perhaps even then, it checks the next frame, and maybe with an internal counter thinks its already processed it, and discards it. Whatever science is behind it, I believe it is at the editing process that the frame gets removed. I personally tend to believe that all video frames are present in the original capture with the PVR, otherwise, I'd see jittery video, which doesn't happen. I think its something to do with the interpreting codec.

Obviously my expertise is very minimal, but I find it strange how DVD-Lab sees all of the frames - and the extra QME's too.

Two question though for you kind sir, is it theoretically possible to remove Quant Matrix Extensions to test my hypothesis, and if so, any chance of maybe including that in VideoReDo?

Will VideoReDo 'insert' missing frames to give me a valid MPEG2 stream to run through TMPGEnc?

And lastly another observation, regarding the theory on disk monopolisation by a virus scanner - I do not believe this is what is happening, given my consistent ability to produce audio sync errors by pressing rewind on the video.

Since I do not get errors when capturing from a solid TV source, I can only hypothesize, that I either need a TBC between VHS and PVR, or that there's too much information going to the card than it can handle, or there's an issue with Quant Matrix Extensions and how certain codec's handle them.

Cheers
Simon

[drosen001]

VideoReDo isn't a substitute for a TBC, but it should correct some of the sync issues created in the PVR. As I mentioned in my msg, I only suspected virus scanners as being a culprit as they seem to be the most asynchronous process on my system. But I can't say for sure. Its my belief that lots of disk activity, while recording, can cause the PVR to create some bad frames. Hopefully, someday we will all get to the bottom of why the PVR creates the intermittent bad data because otherwise its a terrific capture card, the best in my opinion. Much better than the AIW which I also have.

VideoReDo resyncs data by removing audio and video frames to get things back into sync. I tried, early on, the option of adding frames such as silent audio or black video frames and they just didn't look good. Most of the errors I've encountered have been short lived, a few frames or at most 1-2 seconds. These are fairly unobtrusive in the total scheme of things, and the important part is keeping the program in sync after the offense has occurred.

Regarding the Quant Matrix Extensions. If the extension packet is properly formed, no decent decoder will ignore it or the following frame(s). And, TMPGenc is one of the best. If the Quant Matrix Extensions appear only when you see some corrupt frames, then its probably some internal value inside the PVR drivers that is getting reset and causing the driver to output the data. But I'm just speculating here.

[sjdean]

I did try upgrading my DVD MovieFactory 2 SE (the bundled software) to version 3. unfortunately the included DVD MPEG2 Codec was trash and resulted in out-of-sync video. Removing the DVD playback software reverted my machine back to the Cyberlink PowerDVD software which played back perfectly.

Regarding the frame insertion/removal, how does a typical decoder work? Does it advance the audio to match the picture, or pause the video momentarily to match the audio?

If its the latter, can you not insert a copy of the previous frame, or maybe merge the two surrounding frames?

But if a decoder typically effectively either inserts or removes frames to resync, then why does the souce when played through CyberLink PowerDVD Codec, not appear jittery? Thats another reason I am convinced something else is happening.

You also say however "Regarding the Quant Matrix Extensions. If the extension packet is properly formed". Of course, that's *IF* its properly formed. With Hauppauge, that might not be the case.

Cya
Simon

[drosen001]

Regarding the frame insertion/removal, how does a typical decoder work? Does it advance the audio to match the picture, or pause the video momentarily to match the audio?

I can't speak for all decoders, but I can tell you from experience that Ulead MF2 generally ignores time stamps and aligns frames from the beginning. That's why missing frames cause out of sync behavior.

why does the souce when played through CyberLink PowerDVD Codec, not appear jittery?

Some decoders, like Cyberlink and VideoRedo when playing back videeo resync audio and video everytime a time stamp is found in the file. So, even in the presence of bad frames it will resync itself very quickly.

[sjdean]

That's the thing Im not sure about either.

After re-encoding a video using TMPGEnc, I can get sync errors. When taking the same source and compiling a DVD in MF2, the resultant DVD is perfectly in sync! Maybe its just using the Cyberlink codec!

As for Cyberlink resync itself, Im still not sure how this is done. To me it would follow that it must remove video or audio frames, and so you either get chirpy audio and jittery video, of which I get neither. Well at least I dont think I do. Therefore Im unsure really as to whether any information is missing at all.

It would then also appear however, that perhaps TMPGEnc doesn't use the best decoder in the world to get the video. If I could use the Cyberlink PowerDVD Codec in TMPGEnc, there'd be many more happy people.

Thanks for all your replies, I shall give your program a test tonight however and let you know the result.

Cheers
Simon

[sjdean]

Well I've given this a try, and wow! It does everything correctly and remuxes the file in sync... hopefully now I can re-edit the file as required in TMPGEnc!

I've searched for months for something to do this, and now I've found it. Thanks for making such an easy to use piece of software as VideoReDo, and thank you for providing a tool to make my PVR 250 actually usable! I shall definately be buying a registered version.

Of course, I'd still like to find out why my video frames are dropping in the first place.

Cheers
Simon

[drosen001]

I'm thrilled that VideoReDo did the job for you. Pass the word along, it is appreciated.

Of course, I'd still like to find out why my video frames are dropping in the first place.

A lot of people are asking that question. It's truely amazing that Hauppauge can't tell us.

[Ranger One]

I just did a test with the PVR 250. I've been capturing from SVHS to edit & author for concert dvd's. PVAStrumento would show the following message when using the "info" button for the captured SVHS stream:

"Audio starts 66ms early" > video delay on muxing.

You can see this in the "first PTS" numbers.

To see if this was just a videotape capture problem (just bought the Datavideo TBC 1000 for this reason!) > I decided to capture a concert from my home dvd player > I get the SAME EXACT message when viewing the file "info" with PVAStrumento!!

This leads to believe that the problems with the PVR 250 have to do with it's composite & audio inputs. I have tried using my Audigy card for audio input as a test also > same results.

I've seen many posts where there are no problems with the PVR 250 tv tuner captures > I like the quality of the captures this card does but obviously there is a problem with how it captures from the composite & audio inputs.

"dreosen001" > I did purchase your VideoRedo software the other day > my question right now is: do I run the captured file thru your program first & then author it with TMPGENC Dvd Author > or do I author it first (sync errors now show up) & then run it thru your program?

Any tips or instructions will be appreciated!!!

[drosen001]

do I run the captured file thru your program first & then author it with TMPGENC Dvd Author > or do I author it first (sync errors now show up) & then run it thru your program?

You should run it through VideoReDo first, then author it. If you do the opposite the results can be unpredictable. VideoReDo assumes the input is an MPEG2 program stream which, by definition is linear in time (i.e program starts at the beginning of the file, and completes at the end of the file).

DVDs VOB files, while they look like program streams do not have to be sequential. The IFO files contain tables that allow the DVD player to piece a program together from sections of the VOB files. If VideoReDo changes anything in the file after its authored the links between the IFO files (which are simply byte offsets into the VOB files) will be wrong. That means that chapter won't start in the right place and who knows what else could go wrong.

One of our long-time beta testers is a huge TmpGEnv DVD author fan, and if you want additional into on using VideoReDo with this program, you should ask about it on our msg board.

Audio starts 66ms early" > video delay on muxing.

I wouldn't read too much into this message. We have another user who is a big TBC user. In fact he used to design TBCs for a living early in his carreer. He's not too active these days on the forums, but I'll send him an email to take a look at the discussion here.

I did purchase your VideoRedo software the other day

Thanks very much.

[sjdean]

Ranger One, I too have the message in PVAStrumento about the audio starting early. Whether I capture from VHS or TV, I always get this message, but so far, touch wood, the only problems with lip sync has been when I've run my MPEG2 through an editor such as TMPGEnc after capturing from poor quality VHS.

I myself have now found that running the MPEG2 through VideoReDo first gives me as stable as possible MPEG2 that can then be processed in TMPGEnc. I would use PVAStrumento, but the results are basically unwatchable. That's why Im even more pleased with VideoReDo. Finally. Something that works!

What I would do, is capture to MPEG2. Open in VirtualDub MPEG2, scroll to near the end of the file, and play a clip to check lip sync. If it is out here, it will not be handled correctly in TMPGEnc either. So, remux everything using VideoReDo, then take that file, and process as required in TMPGEnc.

I notice however, you have a TBC 1000. I have been thinking of buying one of these, but dont know if I can justify the expense. Does it actually cure anything on your captures? I notice it doesn't cure the "Audio starts early" message, but does it fix the issue with dropped video frames, and hence the issue with synchronisation after running your MPEG2 through an editor like TMPGEnc?

It sounds almost like it doesn't cure that problem at all, otherwise you wouldn't need VideoReDo, and if that's the case, it sounds like there's not a problem with the video sync signal corrupting the captures and therefore a TBC is next to useless with this card.

Just out of interest, do you use a VIA Chipset on your motherboard?

Cheers
Simon

[Ranger One]

Soyo K7V Dragon Plus motherboard with the Via KT266A chipset.

What are your procedures for running your mpeg02 file thru Videoredo?

Thank's!

[Ranger One]

Success!!!
Last nite I again captured a concert videotape with the PVR 250 > checked the file with PVAstrumento > got the usual sync error messages > ran the file thru VideoRedo > & then authored with TMPGENC Dvd Author > with NO SYNC PROBLEMS!

VideoRedo is definitely a keeper!!

[sjdean]

Excellent. Glad you have it working too. Sorry I never got back to you earlier with the options I have chose, I've been a little busy as well.

Finally, there is some software that makes the PVR250 Usable!.

Now back to why there are missing frames, Hauppauge blame motherboards with VIA chipsets. Whether this is strictly true or not I dont know:

Chirpy audio, bad audio sync when playing back your MPEG videos? Do you have a VIA based motherboard?

These problems are due to the MPEG file being corrupt before data packets are written to the hard disk. You might need to download the VIA latency patch: http://download.viahardware.com/vlatency_v019.zip


That blurb seems to suggest that the original file is out of sync, which is obviously something we dont see, what we see is missing frames that some decoders dont know how to handle.

And yes, VideoReDo is definately a keeper. Its absolutely fantastic.

Cya
SImon

[drosen001]

And yes, VideoReDo is definately a keeper. Its absolutely fantastic.

Couldn't have said it better myself, thanks.

Dropped frames aren't limited to the VIA chipset. I have an Intel motherboard on my PVR system and I get dropped frames in about 5% of the shows. Not a serious problem, but it changed my burning steps to always author to a folder, check the sync, and then use Nero to do the burn. Even when I'm not editing a program, I run it through VideoReDo just to be sure everything is in sync. An upcoming release will let you do it from the command line as well.