Trying to backup a flipper to DVD+R DL while retaining menus

[r0lZ]

Sorry for you. Is it the first time you burn a DL?

[rdkapp]

Sorry for you. Is it the first time you burn a DL?

Yes, but I've done several single layer w/out incident, after changing media to Verbatim DVD+R. Only Chewy has responded in the ImgBurn thread, and he places the blame fully on my burner. I'm expecting more of the same from others, including Lightning UK. I'm not a happy camper , but I refuse to let all that work go to waste. I will either get that disc finalized (somehow), or I will save the reauthored DVD on my hard drive and burn it later, when I eventually replace my burner. BTW r0lZ, what is your burner of choice?

[r0lZ]

Sorry for you, but I must agree that it's probably an hardware problem. It is true that many burners are fine for SLs, but picky for DLs.

You might try to finalize the DVD with another burner or on another PC.

I have a Nec ND-3520AW, and I am very happy, although it has some troubles burning some DLs. Anyway, it's the best burner I've used, and it was relatively cheap.
I have had a Pioneer before, but it was very difficult to use, and produced more coasters than usable copies, including when burning SLs!
BTW, if you want to buy a new burner, have a look at the DVD recorders section of videohelp.

[rdkapp]

OK, r0lZ, I'm back up and running with my Samsung SH-S182D and the latest firmware upgrade. It appeared to have a problem finalizing the GoNY DVD+R DL, but apparently, it was successful. It plays, but a quality scan shows that it is a very poor burn. See the details in this thread. I'm deciding whether to use another expensive DL disc to get a better quality burn, but I want to do some other burns first with the new burner.

Anyway, I'm excited to use my new burner, and while I was waiting for it to come in, I decided to experiment and do something that probably many people would not. I decided to make a Special Features only DVD from The Gangs of New York. I've really surprised myself with some of the things I did, and I think I'm very close to finishing it out, but I ran into something a little over my head, and my research has yet to prove fruitful. I had to import 2 PGCs from Disc 2, for which I used the "Import VTST Titles" function in PgcEdit. I also imported a menu from Disc 2, using the replace method in VobBlanker, as described above. Everything seems fine except that I cannot get the links from the imported menu to navigate to the imported VTST titles.

The menu was imported into VTSM 2, PG 3 and the trouble I'm having is with buttons 2 & 3. They are supposed to navigate to VTST 7,1 & VTST 7,2 respectively. It has to do with GPRM commands, and I can't seem to get my mind around them. They are currently pointing to Special Features that were on Disc 1. Can you help me? I've attached my IFOs, in case that will help. TIA.

[Edit] - corrected the attached file to include all IFOs and added to description

[r0lZ]

I haven't analysed your IFOs yet (I haven't enough time for now), but you have to know that you cannot jump directly from a VTS to another VTS. Therefore, you have to create a dummy PGC in the VMGM domain, and jump from the menu button to that PGC, and from that PGC, bounce to your target PGC. You have to do something similar to return from the post-commands of the target PGC to the menu.
Also, if you want to be able to go back to the menu with the remote, you have to create a new dummy Root Menu PGC in the imported VTS, and, again, bounce through the VMGM to the original menu.
Try that. If you have still problems, report them here. I'll try to help you later...

[rdkapp]

r0lZ, I don't know if you'd spot it, but there's a problem with my IFOs. The menu imported from disc 2 was somehow imported twice and should have only been imported once. It was correctly imported into VTSM 2, 1, PG 3. It was incorrectly imported into VTSM 3, 2, PG 1. I don't recall how that happened, but I am in the process of fixing it and will repost the corrected IFOs.

In the meantime, I understand your latest post, and I see how to create a dummy PGC (under the PGC menu), but I'm not sure how many I need and where to place them. Also,

Also, if you want to be able to go back to the menu with the remote, you have to create a new dummy Root Menu PGC in the imported VTS, and, again, bounce through the VMGM to the original menu.

I'm not sure, but did you mean VTSM, or VMGM? Anyway, this seems a bit over my head. (i.e. I could use your help)

[rdkapp]

Corrected IFOs are attached.

Also, in correcting the IFOs with VobBlanker, I discovered a warning, which concerns the imported VTSTs from Disc 2. I don't know how important this is, because if it were not for the navigation problems, everything seems fine, but here's the screenshot of the warning.

[r0lZ]

As I said, you cannot jump from a VTS to another VTS. You have to jump to the VMGM, and then to the other PGC. This is true also to jump from the new dummy menu back to the original menu. This is why you must create a PGC in the VMGM.

The number of PGCs you have to create in the VMGM depends of the number of jumps from VTS to VTS you have to do, and of the method you use. It is usually easier to create a new PGC in the VMGM per jump, but you can also create only one PGC, and initialize a GPRM with a specific value for each jump before jumping to the new VMGM PGC, and test the value of the GPRM in that new PGC to know where you have to jump.

The warning of VobBlanker means that the VOB files and the IFOs are probably desynchronized. The start and end pointers to the VOB cells are not correct in the IFOs. Not sure how you got that, but IMO it's not a PgcEdit bug, as I use Import Title often, and I have never had this problem. Verify carefully if the DVD produced by VobBlanker is correct. You might have some truncated cells, or wrong chapter points!
IMO, it is easier to import the right titles again. Verify the original DVD with VobBlanker before importing the titles.

[rdkapp]

As I said, you cannot jump from a VTS to another VTS. You have to jump to the VMGM, and then to the other PGC. This is true also to jump from the new dummy menu back to the original menu. This is why you must create a PGC in the VMGM.

I see dummy files in VMGM, as well as VTSM. I'm trying to navigate from a VTSM PGC to a VTST PGC, but you're telling me I need to make a dummy file in VMGM to complete the navigation. I'm a little confused, and I want to be sure that's correct.

The number of PGCs you have to create in the VMGM depends of the number of jumps from VTS to VTS you have to do, and of the method you use. It is usually easier to create a new PGC in the VMGM per jump, but you can also create only one PGC, and initialize a GPRM with a specific value for each jump before jumping to the new VMGM PGC, and test the value of the GPRM in that new PGC to know where you have to jump.

GPRMs are not understood by this novice. I've tried to understand them through dvd-replica.com, but no luck so far. If I create a new PGC per jump, do I avoid dealing with GPRMs?

The warning of VobBlanker means that the VOB files and the IFOs are probably desynchronized. The start and end pointers to the VOB cells are not correct in the IFOs. Not sure how you got that, but IMO it's not a PgcEdit bug, as I use Import Title often, and I have never had this problem. Verify carefully if the DVD produced by VobBlanker is correct. You might have some truncated cells, or wrong chapter points!
IMO, it is easier to import the right titles again. Verify the original DVD with VobBlanker before importing the titles.

I can tell you that I've had a couple of oops when importing VTSTs and replacing menu cells, but ultimately have gone back and corrected the mistake, or at least, it seems corrected. Otherwise, I don't know how I got it either. I'll go back and redo it and I'll be more careful this time and avoid the oops. In the meantime, before starting over, I'll practice making some dummy files in the VMGM domain of my current reauthored DVD.

[r0lZ]

1. Since your new menu cells are in VTSM 1, and you have imported the new titles, they are obviously not in VTST 1. Therefore, to jump to a new bonus from the menu, you have to create a new dummy in the VMGM, and use a JumpSS-VMGM-PGC to that new dummy from the menu button. In the new menu, you should use a JumpTT to Title N (where N is one of your imported bonus.)

2. Similarly, to return from the new title to the root menu, you have to add a new dummy in the VMGM, and use a CallSS-VMGM-PGC from the post commands of the imported title to that new dummy. In the new dummy, use JumpSS-VTSM to return to the root menu.

3. If you want to be able to go back to the root menu while the new title is playing with the remote, you have to create a new menu in the imported VTST. A root menu will be automatically created. Replace the default command to a jump to the same dummy PGC you have already made in step 2, as you want to return to the same root menu of VTST 1. But this time, you have to use a JumpSS instead of a CallSS, since CallSS must be used in the title domains only.

4. If you have imported several new titles, you have to repeat step 1 for each title.

5. If you have imported several new titlesets, you have to create a new Root menu in all titlesets. Of course, you can reuse the same dummy to return to the root menu from each new title and each new root menu.

And yes, as you can see, you don't have to use any GPRM if you create one dummy PGC for each jump to a different target.

A GPRM is simply a variable, that can holds any value. You can use them like regular variables in any programming language. (On the other hand, the SPRM are used internally by the player to store and/or retrieve specific values it needs for its navigation. You can't use them without care!)

Good luck!

[rdkapp]

Thanks again, r0lZ. You've hit the spot again. I accomplished #s 1 & 2, but I've got 3 questions about the commands.

1. When returning to the root menu from the new VTST (7, BTW), it returns to Cell 1. I'd like it to return to Cell 3, where the originating button is. Is there any way to do that?

2. Also, there is a "resume cell" variable in the post commands of the imported titles that I don't understand. I started out with 1, but then I changed it to 3, hoping that upon return to the Menu, it would return to Cell 3 of the menu, but it didn't work. See the commands below.

(CallSS) Call the VMGM PGC 8, resume cell 1
 
(CallSS) Call the VMGM PGC 10, resume cell 1

3. In the VMGM dummies (PGCs 8 & 10), there is a Root Menu (TTN) variable that I wasn't sure what to do with. I used 17 & 18 respectively, which are the new imported title numbers. It's working, but did I use the correct variables? See the commands below.

(JumpSS) Jump to VTSM 2, Root menu (TTN 17)
 
(JumpSS) Jump to VTSM 2, Root menu (TTN 18)

3. If you want to be able to go back to the root menu while the new title is playing with the remote, you have to create a new menu in the imported VTST. A root menu will be automatically created. Replace the default command to a jump to the same dummy PGC you have already made in step 2, as you want to return to the same root menu of VTST 1. But this time, you have to use a JumpSS instead of a CallSS, since CallSS must be used in the title domains only.

With regard to the above quote, I'm not sure I did this correctly, because, when the title is playing and I hit stop on the player, it doesn't go back to the menu. I get the PowerDVD splash screen. Also, do I have to do 2 of these (1 for each imported title), or just 1?

A GPRM is simply a variable, that can holds any value. You can use them like regular variables in any programming language. (On the other hand, the SPRM are used internally by the player to store and/or retrieve specific values it needs for its navigation. You can't use them without care!)

Perhaps an example or an exercise (if you have the time) on this will help me understand how they work.

Finally, I want to kill practically all of the submenus, but I'm afraid of creating infinite loops as PgcEdit warns. The only menus I really want to keep are the Main Menu and the Special Features submenus. I've hidden all of the buttons on the Main Menu except Special Features and Setup, but I don't think the Setup menu is even necessary as I believe there is only 1 audio stream in all of the extras I kept, and no subtitles. Can you tell if I can safely blank all the submenus off the Main Menu, except Special Features, or is it just a matter of trial and error?

[Edit]Oh, BTW, my IFOs are attached.

[r0lZ]

1 & 2:
When you leave a title to return to a menu domain, you have to use a CallSS command, which includes the "resume cell" parameter. This is the cell number where the player must return in the title if the user resumes from the menu, or if a RSM command is executed. It should work.

You said "but it didn't work". Can you be more specific? What's the problem? The title resumes to cell 1?

If you use a menu button to return to the title, it is probable that it's not a RSM command that is executed, but a Jump. A jump goes to a specific point in the title, and not to the resume cell. To resume, you have to use RSM, or press again the root or title menu button when you are in the menu.

Take care: do not replace the Jump command by RSM. It's not so simple. To use RSM, you have to be sure that the correct Title has been visited just before the menu. This can be tested before using the command, using this code:

[61 00 00 0F 00 84 00 00]   1  Set gprm(15) =(mov) sprm(4:Title number in volume) 
[20 A1 00 0F 00 01 00 10]   2  if ( gprm(15) == 1 ) then { RSM } 
[30 02 00 00 00 01 00 00]   3  (JumpTT) Jump to Title 1

Of course, this is only an example.
In this example, I use GPRM 15 but you have to use a free GPRM. (You can see which GPRMs are free with Info -> GPRMs.)
Also, my example assumes you want to return to Title 1, and that the menu is in the VMGM. If it is in a VTSM domain, you have to replace the JumpTT command by a JumpVTS_TT or JumpVTS_PTT.

3:
The usage of the TTN variable in JumpSS is still unclear. Seems it is not important. It sets the value of SPRM 5 (Title number in VTS), and then execute the jump. It is possible to test the value of SPRM 5 later (with something similar to the code above), but usually, this parameter is ignored.
Anyway, the TTN is NOT the Title number. It's the Title number within the VTS (the TTN in the PGC labels displayed in the left pane of PgcEdit.) Therefore, it is probably better to set it to 1.

4:
Well, the STOP button on the remote stops the DVD. Nothing abnormal here. To return to the root menu, you have to press the Menu button on the remote.
The Title menu is global to the whole DVD. Therefore, you can theoretically always access it (if it is defined, and there are no PUOs to inhibit its usage.)
On the other hand, all other menus (Root, Subpic, Audio, PTT and Angle) are local to the current VTS. Since your real root menu is in VTS 1, you can't access it when a title of another VTS is playing. Therefore, to access it, you have to create a dummy root menu in the new VTSs, and, from that menu, jump to the root menu of VTS 1 through a dummy PGC in the VMGM.
Of course, you have to do that for all imported VTSs.

5:
Since you have already removed the buttons leading to the menus you want to kill, it is probably safe to kill them anyway. Also, when you kill them, select the button that returns to the main menu (or one level up.) This way, if, per chance, one of those menus are still called, the navigation will be automatically redirected to an existing menu. Don't worry, that should work.

[rdkapp]

You said "but it didn't work". Can you be more specific? What's the problem? The title resumes to cell 1?

I'm too tired right now to decipher the rest of your post, but I'll answer this question in detail below. I'll look at the rest tomorrow.

The originating Special Features Menu is VTSM 2, PGC 1, Cell 3 (specifically buttons 2 & 3). They jump to the imported titles VTST 17 & VTST 18, respectively. After each title plays completely, the DVD returns to the Special Features Menu, but not to Cell 3. It returns to Cell 1 of VTSM 2, PGC 1. What I meant by "but it didn't work" is that when I changed the command in the dummy VMGM from "resume cell 1" to "resume cell 3," I thought it would return to Cell 3, but it continued to return to Cell 1. Obviously, I did something wrong, or I'm just way off base on the meaning of that command variable. Probably the latter, because it still worked, just not the way I wanted it to. I'd like it to return to Cell 3, where each originating button is.

[r0lZ]

Ah, OK, I understand the problem. The "resume cell" parameter is valid only for the Titles. You cannot resume to a menu. In your case, you must probably use resume cell 1, as you want to restart the Title from the beginning when it has finished playing.

Returning to a specific cell of the menu is much more complex. You can probably do that by using a GPRM to control the cell where you want to return. But it's not easy to explain. Anyway, I have to look at your IFOs to be able to help you, but I can't understand the navigation easily without your menu. Can you post the latest IFOs with the menushrinked menu again?

Also, if I understand correctly, you have imported two menu cells in the original menu. It is probably easier to create a new PGC for each cell, and jump to that new PGC instead of to a cell in a PGC containing several menus. This case is different than the chapter menu of the movie, as the new menus are not related at all to the original menu. I'll try to explain that later, but anyway, I need your IFOs and menu first.

[rdkapp]

. . . In your case, you must probably use resume cell 1, as you want to restart the Title from the beginning when it has finished playing.

OK, both titles were actually changed back to "resume cell 1" when I discovered "resume cell 3" didn't do what I wanted.

Returning to a specific cell of the menu is much more complex. You can probably do that by using a GPRM to control the cell where you want to return. But it's not easy to explain. Anyway, I have to look at your IFOs to be able to help you, but I can't understand the navigation easily without your menu. Can you post the latest IFOs with the menushrinked menu again?

I'm sure it's not easy to explain, especially where GPRMs and myself are concerned. Maybe this is the example I need to create a little understanding of GPRMs on my part. The most recent IFOs and menushrinked menu VOB (VTS_02_0.VOB) are attached. BTW, I had to strip (?) the audio from the menushrinked menu, as the file was too big to attach keeping the audio. I hope that doesn't matter.

Also, if I understand correctly, you have imported two menu cells in the original menu. It is probably easier to create a new PGC for each cell, and jump to that new PGC instead of to a cell in a PGC containing several menus. This case is different than the chapter menu of the movie, as the new menus are not related at all to the original menu. I'll try to explain that later, but anyway, I need your IFOs and menu first.

This is what I did:
1. I imported 2 titles from disc 2 - now called VTST 7,1 & VTST 7,2
2. I imported 1 menu cell from disc 2 and appended it to VTSM 2,1, by replacing a tiny cell at the end. The existing menu already had 2 cells, so the imported menu became cell 3.
3. I then linked the imported menu (cell 3) to the existing menu (cell 2), by creating a button and placing it over existing text ("More Special Features on Disc 2") in cell 2. It actually worked out nicely, because the highlight of the button is exactly like the other factory created buttons, and it navigates perfectly to the imported menu cell. Hopefully, it can stay that way.

Now, to explain again, when either VTST 7,1 or VTST 7,2 plays through to completion and then returns to the menu, it returns to VTSM 2,1 cell 1. If it's not too difficult, I'd like it to return back to cell 3. If that can be worked out, I will probably add a button to return to cell 1, and another button to return to "Previous" or cell 2. But I can certainly add those buttons myself. I'm getting good at that.