Trying to backup a flipper to DVD+R DL while retaining menus

[spyhawk]

@r0lZ, thanks for the insights on the 2 methods. Your method is really logical and thorough. I prefer method 1 as all the menus will be in the same domain. But method 2 also has its advantage.

About DVDRMP, no, I was not thinking about the Merge feature. I was thinking about the Copy PGC and Append copied PGC feature. This way, 2 sides are all in one PGC. The only thing left is to define chapters for the appended PGC.

True, appending chapter menu is not so simple. I would use method 1 for this case as appending the menu PGCs or cells would be easy as the steps would be repetitive. The hard part is fixing the navigation. But I suppose the logics of the chapter menus from sides 1 & 2 are similar, so it's not so difficult.

[r0lZ]

That's right. With method 1, it should be sufficient to modify the chapter numbers (or the value of a GPRM) of the button commands to jump to the right chapter. It is probably also necessary to fix the internal jumps from page to page.
The main difficulty is to provide a way to jump from the first chapter menu to the second one, and vice versa, as that requires the creation of at least two new buttons.

[rdkapp]

I tested the movie with both Media Player Classic and Power DVD (I figured out how and I actually liked it better than MPC at this point), and it played great, except after the end of the movie, the flipper menu (i.e. "End of Part 1" and "Please Insert Disc 2") came up. It was labeled "Title 16, Chapter 2." Why does it play at the end of the joined discs? What's the best way to get rid of it?

DVD Shrink shows the Movie Only, with all audio and subtitles retained, to be at 7,910 mb, with no compression. All disc 1 menus total 40 mb, with no compression, and the disc 2 chapter menu totals 0.5 mb. So, at 7,950.5 mb, I'm thinking it'll be OK on a DL DVD with no compression. What do you all think? Can I figure it that way?

[blutach]

Your post commands need to lead it back to the main menu. Feel free to post the IFOs (zipped).

Regards

[r0lZ]

You can also use the trace function to locate the "end of part 1" and "insert disc 2" PGCs, and kill them using Kill PGC Playback.

Don't forget that a real GB is 1024 x 1024 x 1024 bytes, but the capacity of DVD+/-Rs is expressed as "false" GBs of 1,000,000,000 bytes. (BTW, if you launch the burn function of PgcEdit, you can see the remaining space on a DL in the first dialogue) Also, as explained above, you must leave some space for the layer break. So, I'm not sure you will have enough space on your DL to burn the DVD without using Shrink. Anyway, try to burn it with ImgBurn. It will warn you if the DVD is too big or if it cannot find a suitable cell for the layer break. If it's the case, shrink it a little bit.

[rdkapp]

Your post commands need to lead it back to the main menu. Feel free to post the IFOs (zipped).

Thanks blu. I hope you meant the IFO files and not some printout from one of the programs I've used. See the zipped IFOs attached.

[rdkapp]

You can also use the trace function to locate the "end of part 1" and "insert disc 2" PGCs, and kill them using Kill PGC Playback.

You're talking about the trace function in PgcEdit, right? Would killing it result in leading back to the main menu, as suggested by blutach? I think I like it leading back to the main menu.

Don't forget that a real GB is 1024 x 1024 x 1024 bytes, but the capacity of DVD+/-Rs is expressed as "false" GBs of 1,000,000,000 bytes. (BTW, if you launch the burn function of PgcEdit, you can see the remaining space on a DL in the first dialogue) Also, as explained above, you must leave some space for the layer break. So, I'm not sure you will have enough space on your DL to burn the DVD without using Shrink. Anyway, try to burn it with ImgBurn. It will warn you if the DVD is too big or if it cannot find a suitable cell for the layer break. If it's the case, shrink it a little bit.

So, compression would be minimal, if at all, which is still a good thing.

[r0lZ]

You're talking about the trace function in PgcEdit, right?

yes.

Would killing it result in leading back to the main menu, as suggested by blutach? I think I like it leading back to the main menu.

Well, it depends of the original authoring. Usually, after the "insert disc 2" thing, the navigation returns to the menu automatically. By killing the PGC, you will reach it directly. Anyway, killing the PGCs doesn't hurt, and if you remove the cells from the VOBs, you can even regain some disc space.
If the nav doesn't come back to the menu, it will be necessary to do some other changes as well, but begin by the simplest method...

So, compression would be minimal, if at all, which is still a good thing.

Of course, I agree.

[blutach]

Whilst not 100% sure where your main menu is, I'm gunna assume it is VTSM 1, 1. So you can try changing the last post command of title 1 to:

(CallSS) Call the Root Menu of the Current VTS, Resume Cell 1.

Regards

[rdkapp]

Well, I must say that I am proud of myself, in that I figured out, all by myself, how to change the last post command of Title 1, as suggested by blutach. Here's the screenshots to prove it.

This is what I started with:



This is what I ended up with:



It worked, as immediately after the movie ends, it goes directly to the main menu, but r0lZ, your post (below) about saving disc space has piqued my curiousity. If saving the disc space is worth it, I can easily restore the movie either by changing it back (as I've already demonstrated to myself) or through the Pgc Backup files. First though, would killing the PGC save disc space over blutach's suggested method? If so, how significant is the savings? I will tell you that I've already loaded the Movie-Only in Img Burn and it couldn't find a suitable cell for the layer break, so I'm already thinking that I'm going to have to Shrink it more.

Well, it depends of the original authoring. Usually, after the "insert disc 2" thing, the navigation returns to the menu automatically. By killing the PGC, you will reach it directly. Anyway, killing the PGCs doesn't hurt, and if you remove the cells from the VOBs, you can even regain some disc space.
If the nav doesn't come back to the menu, it will be necessary to do some other changes as well, but begin by the simplest method...

I neglected to tell you earlier that there is a "Main Menu" button on the "insert disc 2" screen, so maybe killing it will result in the automatic return to the Main Menu.

If you think the space savings would be significant enough, I would very much like to learn how to kill the PGC in Trace mode. I just need some more detailed instructions on how to do it. I looked around a little bit in Trace mode, but it wasn't clear how, so I moved on to blutach's suggestion, and I was able to figure it out.

[r0lZ]

Blutach's method is easy, but doesn't save space. It redirects only the nav directly to the menu.
Fortunately, you don't need to go back to your last backup to remove unnecessary stuff. You can do it now if you wish.

There are several methods to remove the useless VOBs. Lets begin with the easier one.
For example, I see in your IFOs that Title 2 is still 2:31 and Title 3 is 2:32. Both titles are in the same VTS (aka titleset.) You can blank those two titles if you are sure that you don't need them. Verify the content of the titles with the preview. (Select the PGC and press the ~/` key to launch the preview.) Do it for both titles. If you think you don't need BOTH titles, right-click on one of them. and select "Blank out all VTST Titles". In the dialogue, accept the defaults. The VOB files of VTS 2 (VTS_02_1.VOB) will be automatically replaced by a tiny VOB file.
Repeat the same procedure for all titlesets. Keep only what you really need.
IMO, you will be able to regain much disc space if you kill all VTST (except, of course, the main movie in VTST 1.) BTW, it is probably not necessary to remove everything, as you don't need to regain much space. So, preview everything and begin by blanking the domains that you reallyy don't want, such as studio logos. Try ImgBurn and if there is still not enough free space, continue to blank some other VTSTs.

Note that there are long menus in VTSM 4. You can apply the same procedure on a menu domain (VTSM) but here you can even remove completely the menu VOB. Also, if one (or several) PGC has menu buttons, the procedure is a little bit more complex. You will have to select a button during the blanking. Usually, you must select the button that returns to the main menu, so that the nav will return automatically to the main menu if per chance the blanked menu is accessed during the playback of the DVD.

It is also possible to selectively blank some PGCs in a VTS, without affecting the other PGCs of the same domain, but it's a little bit more complex, as this method doesn't physically remove the VOB file. You will have to process the domain with FixVTS to regain the disc space. If you want, I'll explain that later, but for now, begin with the method I've explained above.

Oh, don't forget: do an incremental backup BEFORE blanking anything. As your DVD is now almost perfect (except that it is still a little bit too big), it's a good idea to do it now!

[rdkapp]

Incremental backup is done. Now, before I proceed, I'm a little bit confused, because I was focusing on the small task of removing the "insert disc 2" menu, and we seemed to have switched gears to saving disc space by blanking all the extras, except the movie and the desired menus. Therefore, I have some comments and questions:

1. The 7,950.5 mb measurement (posted earlier) was for a Movie-Only created by Shrink, plus the disc 1 menus, as measured by Shrink, and the disc 2 chapter menu, as measured by Shrink. Doesn't that measurement already exclude all the extras your post is proposing to blank? Then, will your method gain any more space over that?

2. The method you've described in your previous post is not using the trace mode. Is that correct? If so, why the switch?

3. Is the method you've described the same as Step 3 in the following link: http://jsoto.posunplugged.com/guides...enus/index.htm. I was planning to use the method described in the linked website after learning how to fix the "insert disc 2" problem, but if they're the same (or will accomplish the same result), I don't need to do both, right?

4. BTW, the "insert disc 2" menu is contained in Title 16, VTST 6, 1. I've confirmed this with a preview. Here's a screenshot:



5.

Note that there are long menus in VTSM 4. You can apply the same procedure on a menu domain (VTSM) but here you can even remove completely the menu VOB. Also, if one (or several) PGC has menu buttons, the procedure is a little bit more complex. You will have to select a button during the blanking. Usually, you must select the button that returns to the main menu, so that the nav will return automatically to the main menu if per chance the blanked menu is accessed during the playback of the DVD.

You lost me in your post above when you started talking about selecting a button during blanking. Does that apply to what I'm trying to do?

[r0lZ]

1. The 7,950.5 mb measurement (posted earlier) was for a Movie-Only created by Shrink, plus the disc 1 menus, as measured by Shrink, and the disc 2 chapter menu, as measured by Shrink. Doesn't that measurement already exclude all the extras your post is proposing to blank? Then, will your method gain any more space over that?

That's right. But the extras are present in the DVD, therefore, to regain the space, you have to remove them. That can be done easily and quickly with the method I've explained above.
You cannot use Shrink in reauthor mode without losing the menus, or you will need to reimport the original menu in the reauthored DVD and recreate the navigation manually. That's really not easy.

2. The method you've described in your previous post is not using the trace mode. Is that correct? If so, why the switch?

Right again. The method using the trace is useful to locate the useless PGCs at the beginning of the DVD (such as FBI warnings and studio logos) but with this method, you cannot remove the VOB files directly. You have to use FixVTS to do it. In your particular case, it is easier to blank all titlesets but the first one with the method I have explained above, or the method explained in the guide (see below.)

3. Is the method you've described the same as Step 3 in the following link: http://jsoto.posunplugged.com/guides...enus/index.htm. I was planning to use the method described in the linked website after learning how to fix the "insert disc 2" problem, but if they're the same (or will accomplish the same result), I don't need to do both, right?

Right again. The method I've explained is a little bit less easy, as you have to blank all titlesets manually, but it gives you more control, because you can verify if it's really an extra you don't need before blanking it. Of course, if you know already that you have to blank all the extra titlesets, you can use the fast method instead. (BTW, the Blank out all Title PGCs in DVD function is only a macro that calls Blank out all VTST titles for each VTS, after confirmation by the user.)

4. BTW, the "insert disc 2" menu is contained in Title 16, VTST 6, 1. I've confirmed this with a preview.

Therefore, you can certainly blank out VTST 6, as you know already that you don't need it any more. You can even do the test by yourself: use Info -> Find uncalled PGCs. VTS 6 should be totally uncalled now (including the menus), and if it's the case, you can even remove it completely with DVD -> Delete last VTS in DVD.

5. You lost me in your post above when you started talking about selecting a button during blanking. Does that apply to what I'm trying to do?

Only when you blank out a menu domain, and that menu has some PGCs with buttons. Begin by blanking the title domains. We will come back to blanking the useless menus later...

[rdkapp]

Invaluable information, r0lZ! I'll put it to use tomorrow, when I'm a bit more awake.

1. The 7,950.5 mb measurement (posted earlier) was for a Movie-Only created by Shrink, plus the disc 1 menus, as measured by Shrink, and the disc 2 chapter menu, as measured by Shrink. Doesn't that measurement already exclude all the extras your post is proposing to blank? Then, will your method gain any more space over that?

That's right. But the extras are present in the DVD, therefore, to regain the space, you have to remove them. That can be done easily and quickly with the method I've explained above.
You cannot use Shrink in reauthor mode without losing the menus, or you will need to reimport the original menu in the reauthored DVD and recreate the navigation manually. That's really not easy.

Doesn't Steps 6-8 in http://jsoto.posunplugged.com/guides...enus/index.htm, add the menus back in with VobBlanker, w/out having to adjust the navigation? I'm asking this, because I've used that method on every backup I've done (4 so far), and thankfully, I haven't had to adjust any navigation.

. . . The method I've explained is a little bit less easy, . . . .

I like that description. Instead of "harder" or "more difficult," it's "less easy," or "a little bit less easy." I'll have to remember that when I'm trying to explain things to somebody.

[blutach]

More than likely no navigation will need to be adjusted. The procedure is a bit academic given VobBlanker's excellent cutting features.

Regards