Trying to backup a flipper to DVD+R DL while retaining menus

[r0lZ]

The unreferenced material comes from VTSM 6. Apply FixVTS again (from PgcEdit) to that domain. The unreferenced material MUST totally disappear. Be sure to tick the first two checkboxes in FixVTS's GUI.

Honestly, deleting the unused VTS is really not useful, as the gain is negligible. The total gain is probably more or less equivalent to 1 second of video!

Importing the second chapter menu is more interesting, but I haven't much time to explain that today. Maybe tomorrow...

[rdkapp]

The unreferenced material comes from VTSM 6. Apply FixVTS again (from PgcEdit) to that domain. The unreferenced material MUST totally disappear. Be sure to tick the first two checkboxes in FixVTS's GUI. . . .

Done, and I learned that I had to highlight VTSM 6, and not VTST 6.

Importing the second chapter menu is more interesting, but I haven't much time to explain that today. Maybe tomorrow...

I look forward to it. Since I'm ready to burn, except for importing the disc 2 chapter menu, do I do a full backup or an incremental backup? And, can I delete all my other backups, whether they be PgcEdit or FixVTS?

[r0lZ]

When launched from PgcEdit, FixVTS works always on the current domain. You can however process also the whole DVD.

As I can see, everything fits on a single layer DVD now. Perfect. Seems there is still enough room for the new chapter menu. But maybe you will still have to shrink the DVD a little bit to be able to select the layer break in ImgBurn...

Before deleting the backups, test carefully with a software player. If everything is fine, delete all backups, and create a new one. (If you launch PgcEdit again, it will be created automatically.)

[EDIT] Can you post the final IFOs again? I need them to help you to import the new chapter menu.
I might need also the menushrinked menu VOB file (VTS_01_0.VOB.) Don't forget to restore the menushrink backup after!

[rdkapp]

When launched from PgcEdit, FixVTS works always on the current domain. You can however process also the whole DVD.

As I can see, everything fits on a single layer DVD now. Perfect. Seems there is still enough room for the new chapter menu. But maybe you will still have to shrink the DVD a little bit to be able to select the layer break in ImgBurn...

Before deleting the backups, test carefully with a software player. If everything is fine, delete all backups, and create a new one. (If you launch PgcEdit again, it will be created automatically.)

[EDIT] Can you post the final IFOs again? I need them to help you to import the new chapter menu.
I might need also the menushrinked menu VOB file (VTS_01_0.VOB.) Don't forget to restore the menushrink backup after!

I thought VTSM 6 and VTST 6 were the same domain, but now I know they're different, as one is a menu domain and the other a title domain. Right?

Yes, 7,959 mb is a nice size, but I opened it up in ImgBurn (which BTW notified me that there is a new version) and it couldn't select the layer break. Obviously, when I'm ready, I'll have to compress the main movie some and do some test runs. How much do you think I should reduce it each test run to see if ImgBurn can select the layer break? (i.e. should I reduce it to 7,900 mb and then test it again, or how much?)

When you say, "test carefully with a software player," do I need to watch the entire movie, or am I just looking carefully at the menus, the operation of the menu buttons, and the chapter changeovers? What exactly do I look for when testing?

Finally, I'll post the finall IFOs and the menushrinked VOB file after testing. Do I need to provide anything from disc 2?

[r0lZ]

I thought VTSM 6 and VTST 6 were the same domain, but now I know they're different, as one is a menu domain and the other a title domain. Right?

Yes.
Note that theoretically each title is considered as a separate domain, so, when there are several titles in the same VTS, there are also several title domains. But usually, we consider all titles of the same VTS as belonging to an unique domain.
The First-Play PGC is also a domain, and there is also a domain called Exit domain (IIRC), which is what is displayed when nothing is played (ie your player is completely stopped.)

Yes, 7,959 mb is a nice size, but I opened it up in ImgBurn (which BTW notified me that there is a new version) and it couldn't select the layer break. Obviously, when I'm ready, I'll have to compress the main movie some and do some test runs. How much do you think I should reduce it each test run to see if ImgBurn can select the layer break? (i.e. should I reduce it to 7,900 mb and then test it again, or how much?)

There is a burn function in PgcEdit that can help determine that. But before, we must add the 2nd half of the chapter menu.

When you say, "test carefully with a software player," do I need to watch the entire movie, or am I just looking carefully at the menus, the operation of the menu buttons, and the chapter changeovers? What exactly do I look for when testing?

Only the navigation matters. So, try to do everything that you can do with the remote. Use each menu, return to the menu during playback, test if everything is correct when the end of the movie is reached, check the goto time function (using the timeline slider of software players) to see if the playback jumps to the correct time, etc... Of course, you don't have to watch the whole movie.
Anyway, I believe everything is correct, so do not spend too much time in testing...

Finally, I'll post the finall IFOs and the menushrinked VOB file after testing. Do I need to provide anything from disc 2?

Might be useful to have also the IFOs and menushrinked menus of side 2, but IMO, the menu should have the same structure on sides 1 and 2, so I don't really need it.

[rdkapp]

Only the navigation matters. So, try to do everything that you can do with the remote. Use each menu, return to the menu during playback, test if everything is correct when the end of the movie is reached, check the goto time function (using the timeline slider of software players) to see if the playback jumps to the correct time, etc... Of course, you don't have to watch the whole movie.
Anyway, I believe everything is correct, so do not spend too much time in testing...

The only thing I noticed during testing is that the French subtitles didn't work. Now, there is no selection for French in the DVD menu, but the software players (PowerDVD & MPC) both had a selection of "French (forced)." I also remember French subtitles in either PgcEdit or VobBlanker, or both. I don't know what "forced" means, but I have a feeling it's a key word. Anyway, French subtitles are not that important to me, but if you could explain what "forced" means, and whether they should be there, I'll be wiser for it.

The IFOs and Menushrinked VOB file are attached.

[Edit] Deleted unnecessary post about location of menushrinked VOB file.

There is a burn function in PgcEdit that can help determine that. But before, we must add the 2nd half of the chapter menu.

I'm looking forward to that.

[r0lZ]

Forced subtitles are used to translate words written in the image itself, not spoken dialogs. For example, the french forced subpic should be used by french people when they watch the DVD with the french audio track.

Note that there are two kind of forced subpics.

The "forced" attribute in Domain Stream Attributes is effectively only a keyword, equivalent to "director comments", to help identify the track usage. Unfortunately, most players don't use it.

On the other hand, true forced subpics are different. When a subpic stream is selected but off, the subpics are normally not shown. But some particular subtitles can have a flag to tell the player to always display that particular subtitle, even if the display status of the stream is off. This means that the player can use the same stream to display all subpics (when the stream is selected and ON) or only the forced ones (when it is selected but OFF.) BTW, you can change the forced flag (called forced start) of individual subpics with DVDSubEdit.


About your files: sorry, but I don't have the right menushrinked VOB. I need the menu of your reauthored DVD, and the IFO files of the same DVD, after processing with MenuShrink. I can't use a VOB without the corresponding IFOs. So, use MenuShrink on your final DVD, and post the IFOs and VOB in the same zip file. Then, restore the menushrink backup immediately.
Anyway, it is too late here to explain how to merge the menu. Will do it tomorrow...

[rdkapp]

OK, thanks r0lZ for that explanation of forced Subtitles, but it was a bit over my head (or I just don't want to spend the time to understand it - maybe I'll come back to it later), but since I don't need French subtitles, should I get rid of them? If so, how? DVD Shrink, when I compress before burning?

Uh oh! I just loaded the reauthored DVD into Shrink to determine how much space the French subtitles were using, and it appears that when MenuShrink restored my backup, it put more back than was there before I used MenuShrink. I think there may have been a previous MenuShrink backup that didn't get erased. I just remembered (fortunately), that I made a copy of my reauthored DVD folder just before using MenuShrink (this latest time), so I believe that I can just restore those files to the reauthored DVD folder, and I should be all set again.

Yes, I have confirmed that. Phew! Oh, BTW, I also have the latest PgcEdit backup, so I was probably OK from that standpoint, also. I don't know why, but these backups are causing me some problems.

About your files: sorry, but I don't have the right menushrinked VOB. I need the menu of your reauthored DVD, and the IFO files of the same DVD, after processing with MenuShrink. I can't use a VOB without the corresponding IFOs. So, use MenuShrink on your final DVD, and post the IFOs and VOB in the same zip file. Then, restore the menushrink backup immediately.
Anyway, it is too late here to explain how to merge the menu. Will do it tomorrow...

I thought I posted the menushrinked VOB of the reauthored DVD, but not the IFOs. I misunderstood about the IFOs. The IFOs were of the reauthored DVD prior to using MenuShrink. I'll post again, after using Menu Shrink. First, I'm going to restore my reauthored DVD files and then make sure there is nothing in the MenuShrink backup folder, before applying MenuShrink.

[Edit] I confirmed that the French forced Subtitles take up 0.97 MB (according to DVD Shrink). I also restored the reauthored DVD files, ran MenuShrink, zipped up the IFOs and the menushrinked menu VOB file and attached them. Hopefully, they're the right ones. Let me know if they're not. Now, I'll restore the MenuShrink backup, and if, for some reason, it gets messed up, I still have my backup files in another folder.

[r0lZ]

Yes, DVDShrink is perfect to strip the french subtitles.

After using MenuShrink, you must put the IFOs and VOBs from its backup folder back in the original VIDEO_TS folder immediately, overwriting the modified files, because you don't want to keep its work. No need to restore the PgcEdit backup.

OK, I have the right files now. Be sure to start the next step with your good reauthored files (with the animated menus), do an incremental backup, just in case, and continue with my next post...

[r0lZ]

Importing the chapter menu of side 2 back in the reauthored DVD

Your chapter menu is in VTSM 1, PGC 4. Currently, it has 3 cells with 4 chapter buttons in each cell, giving a total of 12 chapters. We need to add the other 3 cells from side 2 to complete the menu.

[EDIT:] See the important note at the end of the next post! You might have to import 4 cells instead of 3!

Let's begin by creating 3 new cells in the reauthored DVD with PgcEdit.

• Open the chapter menu PGC in PgcEdit's PGC EDitor and select Create New Cell. Use the following options:
  - Create cell at the end of the PGC
  - Create new program
  - Create a new blank VOB cell (Very important!)
  - Use the backup option the first time only.
  When you click OK, the PGC editor is closed, the DVD saved and reloaded.
• Repeat the previous step two more times. DO NOT use the "Use last blank cell in VOB" option, as this time we need to create really 3 different cells, to replace them later with VobBlanker.
• When done, verify that the PGC has now 6 cells with different VOB IDs for each cell, and close PgcEdit. We need VobBlanker now.

We must now extract the 3 cells of the side 2 menu with VobBlanker.

• Open the side 2 files in VobBlanker.
• Select the VTS_01_*.VOB line in the upper listbox, and then click the "Menu" button.
• Click on the language unit line in the upper listbox of the new window.
• Locate the chapter menu in the lower listbox. It should have 3 cells and around 36 buttons. Verify with the preview if it's really the chapter menu of side 2, then click on the Cells button.
• In the new window, multi-select all 3 cells, and click on the "ExtAll Mult" button. Select or create an empty folder, and save the cells in that folder. VobBlanker should create 3 VOB files, named VTS_01_001.VOB, VTS_01_002.VOB and VTS_01_003.VOB.
• Close VobBlanker.

Now, we replace the tiny black cells with the VOBs saved by VobBlanker.

• Open the reauthored DVD in VobBlanker.
• Tick Use Input Folder, Process Menus, and Remove PUOPs in VOBs. Untick the other checkboxes.
• Select the VTS_01_*.VOB line in the upper listbox, and then click the "Process" button, and finally the "Menu" button.
• Select the chapter menu, and click on the "Cells" button.
• Click on the first blank cell (ie cell 4) and then on the Replace button.
• Navigate to the folder with the cells saved previously with VB, and select VTS_01_001.VOB.
• Repeat for cells 5 and 6, using VTS_01_002.VOB and VTS_01_003.VOB.
• Click Apply then OK to return to the main window, and click PROCESS!!
• Done with VobBlanker. Close it.

Now, the new cells are in your reauthored DVD. Verify with PgcEdit.
[to be continued...]

[r0lZ]

Modifying the auto activating menu buttons to chain the chapter menus pages together

The method explained here is highly dependent of the way the menu is authored. I'll explain how to do for your DVD, but you will have to be creative if you need to do it on another DVD!

First, we need to fix the button commands to jump to the right chapters.

• Open the chapter menu in PgcEdit's menu viewer, and select cell 4 using the topmost dropdown menu.
• Click on the first big chapter button (button 1). As you can see, the command is "[30 05 00 01 00 01 00 00] (JumpVTS_PTT) Jump to TTN 1, Chapter 1". It jumps to chaper 1 of side 2, which is now chapter 12! We need to modify the command.
• Click on the bug button with the command, and modify it to jump to chapter 12.
• Repeat for buttons 2, 3 and 4 to jump to chapters 13, 14 and 15.
• Repeat the same procedure for the two last cells, to jump to the remaining chapters.
• Save. When prompted, accept to backup the menu VOB.

That's fine, but it is still impossible to select the new menu pages with the remote! We still have to fix some buttons.

• Select the first cell in the menu viewer.
• Click on the chapter 1 button, and press the left cursor on your keyboard. As you can see, a tiny hidden button is selected. It's button 9. Note that the "Auto action" flag is enabled. This means that this button is automatically activated when it is selected. In other words, you don't have to press OK to activate it. It is used here to loop back to button 2 of the last cell (which is originally cell 3.) Its command is "[20 06 00 00 00 00 08 03] LinkPGN Program 3, button 2 (2048)". (As there is one program per cell in the menu, the link to program 3 is equivalent to a link to cell 3.)
• Change the command to link to program 6 (cell 6) instead.
• Now, click on button 3, and press the left cursor key again. Similarly, the tiny button 11 jumps to cell 3, but this time, it selects button 5.
• Change the command to jump to program 6, and to highlight the rightmost button on the second line instead. (You might have to have a look to cell 6 to know which button it is.)
• Note that a similar method is used to jump from buttons 2 and 4 to the next cell. We don't need to change that.

Similarly, we have to change the tiny auto activating buttons of cell 3 to jump to cell 4. This time, you have to select the button at the right side of the window, and press the right cursor key to select the tiny button. I will not explain how to do that, as I'm sure you have understood the principle. It's up to you now!
Of course, you have also to modify cell 4 to jump to cell 3, and cell 6 to jump back to the first cell.

Since the new cells 4 to 6 were originally cells 1 to 3, in the new cells, you have to fix ALL commands jumping from cell to cell except the last ones, when they return to cell 1. The principle is that all program numbers must be increased by 3. Verify carefully all buttons. You don't need to change the big chapter buttons. (BTW, as the tiny auto activating cells are all at the same location, in the top left corner, it is almost impossible to select them with the mouse. Use the keyboard to select them, or the < and > buttons in the bottom part of the viewer.)

Verify also if the "Main Menu" button has the same command in the new cells than in the original ones. If it's not the case, copy the command of that button from the original cell 1 to the main menu buttons of the new cells. This button has to go back to the original main menu!


It is also possible to create a new button below button 7 of cells 1 to 3 to go to cell 4, and similarly in cell 4 to 6 to go to cell 1 (or 3 if you prefer), but I think you have enough work for now...


IMPORTANT: I realize now that side 2 has 13 chapters, and side 1 only 11. I have assumed 12 and 12 chapters. This means that the chapter menu of side 2 has probably 4 cells instead of 3! As my explanation has assumed that there are only 3 cells in the chapter menu of side 2, you might have to adapt the whole procedure (from the previous post also.) You have to create, export and import 4 cells instead of 3, and cell 6 in this post is probably cell 7. Note also that you might have to modify the button number in the tiny button commands to highlight the right button in the target cell!
Sorry for that.

[rdkapp]

r0lZ, I completed up to the following quoted passage in your last post, without a problem. When I got to the following instructions and considering your IMPORTANT note down at the bottom, it became a little confusing for me.

That's fine, but it is still impossible to select the new menu pages with the remote! We still have to fix some buttons.

• Select the first cell in the menu viewer.
• Click on the chapter 1 button, and press the left cursor on your keyboard. As you can see, a tiny hidden button is selected. It's button 9. Note that the "Auto action" flag is enabled. This means that this button is automatically activated when it is selected. In other words, you don't have to press OK to activate it. It is used here to loop back to button 2 of the last cell (which is originally cell 3.) Its command is "[20 06 00 00 00 00 08 03] LinkPGN Program 3, button 2 (2048)". (As there is one program per cell in the menu, the link to program 3 is equivalent to a link to cell 3.)
• Change the command to link to program 6 (cell 6) instead.
• Now, click on button 3, and press the left cursor key again. Similarly, the tiny button 11 jumps to cell 3, but this time, it selects button 5.
• Change the command to jump to program 6, and to highlight the rightmost button on the second line instead. (You might have to have a look to cell 6 to know which button it is.)
• Note that a similar method is used to jump from buttons 2 and 4 to the next cell. We don't need to change that.

Similarly, we have to change the tiny auto activating buttons of cell 3 to jump to cell 4. This time, you have to select the button at the right side of the window, and press the right cursor key to select the tiny button. I will not explain how to do that, as I'm sure you have understood the principle. It's up to you now!
Of course, you have also to modify cell 4 to jump to cell 3, and cell 6 to jump back to the first cell.

Since the new cells 4 to 6 were originally cells 1 to 3, in the new cells, you have to fix ALL commands jumping from cell to cell except the last ones, when they return to cell 1. The principle is that all program numbers must be increased by 3. Verify carefully all buttons. You don't need to change the big chapter buttons. (BTW, as the tiny auto activating cells are all at the same location, in the top left corner, it is almost impossible to select them with the mouse. Use the keyboard to select them, or the < and > buttons in the bottom part of the viewer.)

But I wasn't to be discouraged, so I drew out a little chart for myself with the Scene Selection Cells and the buttons in each cell and I tried to map out where a left cursor and right cursor would go from each button in each cell. I thought I had it right, with a few questions, but when I loaded the reauthored movie to test it, I had the following problems:

1. When I cursored left from cell 1, button 1, I briefly saw the cell 7 menu, but then it quickly changed to the main menu. It was set to go to cell 7, button 2. [Note: I think button 2 in cell 7 is a tiny button, but I couldn't find it. The chapter buttons in cell 7 are 1 & 3, and they're diagonal from each other, which I thought was odd.]
2. When I cursored right from cell 3, button 2, I briefly saw the cell 7 menu, but then it quickly changed to the main menu. It was set to go to cell 4, button 1.

Since I couldn't get to the disc 2 part of the scene selection, I couldn't check any of my other changes. I'm posting a current set of menushrinked IFOs and the menushrinked menu VOB for you to take a look at and see if you can get me back on the right track.

[r0lZ]

Cell 7 is different of the other ones, as it has only 2 chapters. However, I think the right button is selected, as button 2 is exactly on top of button 1. You can therefore jump to button 1 or 2; the result should be identical. (Remember to use the < and > arrows in the menu viewer to select a button that is not easily reachable with the mouse.)

Note also that you can jump directly from a button to its target cell, with the correct button highlighted by default, by middle-clicking on the button, or by selecting the button and using the Jump To Target function. This is especially handy in this case to test if your buttons are correctly configured.

The fact that cell 7 (and also cells 4, 5 and 6) are left immediately when they are played is another problem. I forgot to say that you have to change the cell still time in the cells list. Cells 1 to 3 have a cell still time of 255, which means that the player must wait indefinitely until the user has selected a button. With a cell still time of 0, the cell is played for its normal duration, but the playback continues immediately to the post commands, and returns to the main menu. Therefore, put 255 in the cell still time field of all cells, and everything will work fine.

BTW, seems the chapter menu is made of still frames (not animated) in the original DVD. Can you confirm that?

[r0lZ]

I have verified the tiny hidden buttons. Seems almost perfect. However, in cell 3, button 12 should go to cell 4, button 3 instead of returning to cell 1.

Also, IMO, cell 6, button 13 should select button 3 of cell 7 instead of button 2. Seems more logical.

Note that, in cells 4 to 7, the page selection buttons (buttons 5 to 8) are currently jumping to cells 1 to 4. It might be what you want, but obviously, in the original menu of side 2, they go to the second part of the chapter menu, which is now cells 4 to 7. You might want to increase the target cell by 3 in those buttons, but IMO the way they work now is also good. You cannot however select cells 5, 6 or 7 with those buttons.
If you want to try to add a new button below those little buttons to jump to the second part of the menu, leave them as they are, as we will change them later anyway.

[rdkapp]

Therefore, put 255 in the cell still time field of all cells, and everything will work fine.

BTW, seems the chapter menu is made of still frames (not animated) in the original DVD. Can you confirm that?

Putting 255 in the cell still time field of all cells did the trick. Thanks, r0lZ! Also, there is no movement in the chapter menu, so I believe it is still frames (not animated).

Note that, in cells 4 to 7, the page selection buttons (buttons 5 to 8) are currently jumping to cells 1 to 4. It might be what you want, but obviously, in the original menu of side 2, they go to the second part of the chapter menu, which is now cells 4 to 7. You might want to increase the target cell by 3 in those buttons, but IMO the way they work now is also good. You cannot however select cells 5, 6 or 7 with those buttons.
If you want to try to add a new button below those little buttons to jump to the second part of the menu, leave them as they are, as we will change them later anyway.

I made the changes suggested, and actually started changing buttons 5 - 8 in cells 4 - 7, but when I read the last sentence of your post I changed them back. I tested it and everything seems to be working according to the changes made. I do want to add buttons and maybe change the existing buttons numerically to match the chapters (if it's not too much trouble). This is great! Thanks so much, r0lZ!