Football (Soccer)

[Oriphus]

I hope you put a bet on it lol.

For your joke, maybe it should've been:

"I guess sometimes he Khan and sometimes he Khan't"

Very witty by the way lol

[Oriphus]

Celtic got a good win tonight, though with a load of players sent off during the match for both teams....

Newcastle had a great win, and Liverpool drew, though Baros looked amazing...

[admin]

Baros' talent is wasted at Liverpool. The same probably goes for Kewell, Owen and Gerrard. In fact, most good players that goes to join Houllier becomes crap (eg. the French national team that didn't qualify for the World Cup under Houllier, and then almost exactly the same team goes to win the damn thing under Jacquet).

I hope Liverpool gives Houllier a lifetime contract

Speaking of talent, there is another Spanish "wonderkid" at Arsenal (this time, "stolen" from Barcelona). Cesc, or Francesc Fabregas Soler, is only 16 years old, already plays regularly in the reserves as a central midfielder, and has scored 3 goals from 9 appearances (and also another goal in the league cup, the youngest ever Arsenal player to score). He has already won the goalden ball and golden shoe awards at the FIFA U-17 World Championship. He should be pushing for a place on the first team come next season.

[admin]

The actual CL draw:

Porto v Lyon
Real Madrid v Monaco
Chelsea v Arsenal
AC Milan v Deportivo

Almost got it right - got 2 ties completely right though, even the order in which the teams were drawn!!

We've already knocked Chelsea out of the FA Cup and ended their league campaign (at least for the present). Probabilities and averages suggest that we won't be able to knock them out of the third and last competition, but at least the draw will be played in England. It would be embarrassing to be knocked out by Chelsea though!!

[Oriphus]

Yeah, was jsut about to comment on the CL draw. Arsenal look like they are set to knock out Chelsea again. I would like to see Arsenal win this match, then get beaten by Real Madrid. Well, maybe for my Granny's sake, who was a huge Arsenal fan, id like to see them go the whole way this time....

Hmm...decisions on who to support after they knock Chelsea out....

[admin]

Just realised our fixture goes ManU (H, league), Chelsea (A, CL), ManU (H, FAC), Chelsea (H, CL). Then we play Liverpool and Newcastle!!

I think in this case, the league has to take priority over the other competitions (ie. rest players in the FA Cup, if necessary), as it's more important for us this season than the FA Cup, and easier to do than the CL (even if we knock out Chelsea, it's Madrid/Monaco and possibly Milan in the final).

Putting some money on Arsenal for the league, ManU for the FA Cup and a Madrid/Milan final (with Milan winning due to their superior defense) might be a good idea. I think someone was a little too optimistic to give 7/1 odds on Arsenal doing the treble!!

[MPS]

yup, U got AC Milan vs Deportivo & Porto vs Lyon right, congrats

interesting draw thou w/o MU... it's Real-Arsenal & Porto-Milan in the semis and Real-Milan final with Real, hopefully, taking the cup.
it would be fun thou if Depo could knock another italian club out (nameyl Milan ) wouldnt it? :>

Arsenal treble? no way it's league for Arsenal, FA for MU and CL for Real.
bet on that

[admin]

Oh dear ...

I actually thought that United played very well in the first half, and were unlucky to be 1 goal down at half time. But the second half was horrible, and City deserved their victory (probably not 4-1 though, but great goal by Shaun "Wright Wright Wright" Phillips).

[Oriphus]

Im not sure City did deserve the victory. We pressurised and pressurised most of the game. in fact we hit the post twice and the crossbar twice in the whole game. I think what we saw out there today is just how much luck can play in a game. Man City were not impressive. Robbies first goal was a very lucky one for them. The third goal was an uncharacteristc mistake from Silvestre which was lucky for City. The fourth was a hit and hope very lucky goal that might have taken a slight deflection off Wes Brown.

Overall, its disappointing, but im not that upsaet, as i've already ruled out winning the premiership. If you dont win, it doest really matter if you are 2nd, 3rd or 4th, you will still get into CL...

[admin]

United's second half was woeful. Barely a shot on target and very little pressure on the City defense. City's defensive tactics were horrible in the first half - everytime United breaks, there were only 2 defenders usually against 3 United attackers. The second half was much more solid for City, and so, you had less chances to break (Ronaldo must have lost the ball on the left 3 or 4 times when he had the chance to break - he broke well in the first half because City's fullbacks were too far up the field).

But I think the reality is that you won't win the league with players like Fletcher, Butt and Forlan (the same probably goes for Bellion and maybe Kleberson, at least that's what some other United fans say). Djemba Djemba, I thought, was pretty good in the games he has started and Ronaldo is a great player (after all, Wenger wanted to buy him and would have if United hadn't used suspect methods to secure the transfer, like offering double what some clubs, possibly us, had already agreed a fee), but the rest of your squad is getting old, and it's unlikely you will be able to rebuild through your youth setup. So I guess the keyword this summer will be buy, buy, buy!!

Cygan for 8 million?

[Oriphus]

Come on you, did you seriously think that anyone else bar United were going to get Ronaldo. Arsenal didnt have a hope of getting him. In fact it was Juventus that already had agreed a fee with Sporting and that was the reason that United had to jump in and buy him sooner than we wanted to. Dont forget United have a partnership with Sporting meaning that they can swap players more easily and buy players from each other (although it will really be one-way traffic) and get preference over others...

Also, I disagree with the second half performance. We had some good possession, but Man City played with 5 defenders in the second half and made it very difficult for us. We had 67% possession i think in the whole game. Most people would agree that 3 out of the 4 Man City goals were lucky...

Also, I agree with Darren Fletcher not being good enough for a starting 11 Man United team. He will get better with time (he has a lot of potential). However, we are struggling to have players fit today. Ronaldo just keeps getting better and better each time he plays and keeps growing in confidence. Hitting the post twice today was very unlucky. I expect him to play a major part in the team next year, unfortunately it will probably be at the expense of our wonder sub Ole Gunner (my favourite player) who i really hope gets back on form. What i disagree with is Nicky Butt, who had a very good match today. He is consistently playing better and better and i think you will see him play more first team football next year and the rest of this year.

At the minute we have Rio Ferdinand out, Ronaldo not fully fit (thats why he went off), Gary Neville suspended, Roy Keane injured, Djemba Djemba out with injury, Quintin Fortune out with injury, Louis Saha out with injury.

Thats say 5/6 potential first team starters for every game. How do people expect Man United to perform, especially at the back, with these sort of problems. Wes Brown is only coming back into the game and he is starting to look good. I think we are going to see either Wes Brown or Silvestre playing as a left back (prob Silvestre as Wes Brown would be more a right back) when Ferdiand comes back into the team next year.

Imagine this:

Gary Neville, Wes Brown, Rio Ferdinand, Silvestre as defenders

Ryan giggs, Roy Keane, Paul Scholes, Christiano Ronaldo

Rudd Van Nistelrooy, louis Saha/Ole Gunner Solskjaer

Now that would be a CL winning team. If all those players mentioned are fit and palying at there best, they are virtually unbeatable. Ok, ill admit this has been a very bad season for Man United, but we are still going to put Arsenal out of the FA Cup and win atleast one trophy this year. You never know, being 12 points behind might not be too bad. All we need is for Arsenal to slip up and draw/lose 4 games out of the next 10. As long as we then beat you at Highbury we could still win the Premiership. LOL i know its a long shot, but never rule anyone out till the fat lady sings. For all we know, Theiry Henry and Robert Pires might both collide with Freddy and all break their legs lol.

[admin]

While United have a large squad, I think your backup players are very average, and even some of your first teamers are getting on a bit. I think the difference between our teams this season is that our backups are performing, and the youth system is finally starting to show its rewards.

To use the best example, this was our line up that beat Inter Milan 5-1 (and pretty much the same lineup that beat Birmingham City 3-0) :

Lehmann
Toure Campbell Cygan Cole
Ljungberg Parlour Edu Pires
Kanu Henry

We were missing these regular players:

Lauren
Vieira
Gilberto
Bergkamp

Cole has been suspended/injured for more games this season than previously, but his 18 year old replacement Clichy has been solid in both defense and attack. Arsenal have had the best defensive record when Cygan has played. Parlour, captain for quite a few games this season, has put in some great performances, also defensively. Kanu can hold on to the ball forever. Edu is better than Gilberto, a World Cup winner. Then there is Bentley, Aliadiere, Reyes and Keown (of the Old Trafford fame). Others that would have played if there was an opening include Hoyte (fantastic right back for the England Under 21's, works well with Bentley), Cesc, Papadopulos (on loan, Vieri type player) and Senderos (Swiss wonderkid).

I think the key was that our backups were solid defensively, whereas your backups were not or were used in the wrong positions. I think you mentioned it in quite a few posts, that you really needed a experienced defender in January, even if it is just a short term buy. Also, some of your "big" players have had an average season (at least compared to the last), namely Giggs, Scholes, RvN (I know he has scored lots of goals, but he fails to score at the most important times, eg. against Porto and Man City, Fulham, Wolves, Chelsea and of course, against us ).

[Oriphus]

Yeah, we do definitely need another defender. Silvestre made a right hash yesterday as well gifting them the 3rd goal, which sealed our fate.

Heard a few reports today:

1). Chelsea and Manchester United have been told that if they want to buy Atletico Madrid striker Fernando Torres they will have to bid £30 million, according to the Sunday Mirror. United had a £24 million bid rejected for the starlet last week while Chelsea's offer of £18 million fell well short as well. The £30 million striker will be made available should the Spanish club fail to qualify for next season's Champions League.

2). Chelsea winger Damien Duff, who is said to be unhappy with the club signing PSV Eindhoven's Arjen Robben, is being linked with a summer move to Manchester United, according to the Mail on Sunday. Duff snubbed United last summer and opted for a move to Stamford Bridge but Sir Alex Ferguson has forgiven the Irishman an dis ready to make a move for him again in the summer. The newspaper report that Duff is seriously considering leaving Chelsea and moving to Old Trafford in the summer.

3). Chelsea are ready to offload midfielders Claude Makelele, Jesper Groenkjaer and Manu Petit this summer, according to the Evening Standard. Petit will not have his contract renewed, while Makelele has disappointed the clubs management since his summer move from Real Madrid. Groenkjaer will also be transfer listed this summer.

Could be some prospect for United in there...

[admin]

Does the United youth/reserve system currently have any players that can come in and put some pressure on the current players? Buying players is a good idea, but I think the problem with that is that it takes time for new players to settle, so you'll only want to play them sparingly (I think some of your new players this season have been used too much, and too much pressure has been put on them to perform).

Of course, the problem is that if you spend big bucks on a big player (and you probably need to), will they be willing to sit on the bench for half of this season to acclimatize? How much pressure will the fans put on the manager and said big player if he plays too many games when he's clearly not ready, and performs badly? Chelsea is probably the best example of this phenomenon.

Players from the youth system, or even young signings like Ronaldo, usually don't have this problem though, as fans are willing to give them more time, and the player himself won't mind sitting on the bench and waiting for the right opportunity. Although young AND expensive players, again like Ronaldo, will need to have the right attitude or they'll get a big head.

I think United will have to limit their buying to only a 1 or 2 new big players, and give your current new players a chance to fit in. Buying an older and experienced players will solve any short term problems though, and still allow youth to develop, although you could end up with someone like Blanc.

Anyway ...

Arsenal have some very tough games remaining, and I suspect the gap will narrow considerably between ourselves and Chelsea (even if we go unbeaten, it doesn't mean we can't draw games). If United can actually win two games in a row, then they might catch up to us as well, although I can't see them going past Chelsea at the moment. Let just all pray that Chelsea doesn't end up winning the league

[Oriphus]

Yeah, i really dont want to see Chelsea winning the league. If there was another team other than Unite that was to win the league, im happy that it is Arsenal, though they are a big rival of ours.

In terms of our Youth players, there are some great ones coming through. but they are not yet developed enough. Richardson, Nardiello, Chris Eagles, Danny Pugh, fletcher (though not youth) are all on their way up the system. They are good players and will improve, but whether or not they are more nevilles, Giggs or Beckhams is yet to be seen.

I agree that buying big name players is not going to be easy, especially if they are benched for a lot of the year. I think Ryan Giggs is still an extremely good player and dont want Damien Duff as a replacement for him. What that means is if we buy duff, he may well expect to be on the Bench quite a bit. Also, we really do need a big name defender, or maybe not a big name one, but a good strong one...