Blu-ray: Early adopters knew what they were getting into

[admin]

Blu-ray may have taken a commanding lead in the next-generation format war, but the group has a big problem looming: early supporters of the format will be left out in the cold when the Blu-ray Disc Association introduces BD Profile 2.0

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When BetaNews asked developers of BD Live whether they were concerned about a backlash from early adopters who supported the format from the beginning, we were told: "They knew what they were getting into."

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When BetaNews asked why these manufacturers rushed out players that were not fully capable and potentially buggy due to their BD-J implementation, the Blu-ray partner pointed blame across the room to HD DVD. "We should have waited another year to introduce Blu-ray to the public, but the format war changed the situation," he said. HD DVD was already coming and the BDA had no choice but to launch Blu-ray.

http://www.betanews.com/article/Bluray_Early_adopters_knew_what_they_were_getting_into/1199841379

So basically the BDA admits they rushed an unfinished product through to try to beat the already mature HD DVD, and then now says "tough luck, not our problem" when it comes to profiles? That's not a very nice attitude towards the people who have helped you maybe get a victory.

[damanisjon]

BD players

Those people should have known that profiles were bound to change, I know I did, thats why I purchased a PS3. Maybe they should have done the same thing. Its the same with everything at the end of the day. XBOX360 core and premium consumers have now an out of date product when compared to the Elite and new consoles with HDMI. And pretty sure there will be a new unit out eventually with a BD or HD tray. Those consumers should also know what they are getting into aswell!

[admin]

I would say that the Blu-ray profiles was a little more sinister because the plans for profiles and for certain content to be unplayable was a concerted plan, and while public, it is sort of an unspoken and certainly not communicated effectively with consumers (no warnings on boxes and such). Microsoft rushed into the market with the RROD Xbox 360's and they're paying for it through replacements and repairs, not to mention loss of reputation, so it hasn't been exactly a great plan for them or for the consumer. But there is no content that is unusable on any of the Xbox 360 SKU's because they designed the original to do it all, and all subsequent upgrades are complimentary, rather than excluding original 360 owners from doing things and forcing them to upgrade to the new SKU. One feature that is missing though for the original console owners is DVD upscaling through HDMI, since the original did not have HDMI. But hardly anybody uses the 360 for DVD playback as it's so noisy. With the PS3, it's the reverse, since the original SKUs were better than the current one (40 GB model), so it actually forced people to keep their originals and not replace it at any cost (unless they plan to sell it on eBay, and I've seen the discontinued models selling for well over $US 1,500).

I know of one major retailer in Australia that is giving warning notes to Blu-ray hardware buyers to warn them about potential future problems with players, which is nice of them (they do it because it protects them legally), but it's not universally done. If this retailer's legal department is telling them to do this, then you have to say things are not really what they should be. I'm afraid that the people who have jumped on the Blu-ray bandwagon without really reading into it, that is those that probably don't read or post on forums such as this, won't really know what's going on.

[damanisjon]

good product? or good timing?

Your view is informative and interesting, I think it all amounts to sacrifices companies have to make in order to make themselves a cut in the market, and yes, often the consumer is the main casualty.
Ideal conditions do not exist when it comes to sales, and the market place is a dog eat dog environment.
Even though you might think is nasty, had BD not gone out when it did, the story with BD and HD might had gone the other way around. People who afforded to buy a BD player when it first came out and didn’t look into it, are probably not bothered as they should be well off! As they purchased it on release to start with.
The xbox360 would not have the consumer base it has now had it not being released early, and at the end of the day, all the problems it has had still do not justify not releasing when it did. The ps3 sacrificed ground to xbox360 in order to have a good looking complete system... but in the end had to sacrifice the 60 GB unit in order to make it more affordable for consumers.
Thinking about it.. maybe good sales do not depend on a perfect product.. but good timing and affordability for the consumer base.

Maybe someone who purchased a BD system early on will say the money they have paid has justified the use they have gotten out of it before the upgrades were out. I queued up for the release of the xbox360 and PS3 and paid more money that they are going for right now in the shops.. should I also be angry at Sony and Microsoft.. for stabbing me in the back as an early adopter? I think too, the use I have got out of the machines before the price cuts were made, justify paying top buck

[admin]

The real problem as I see it is that profile 1.1 is the mandatory standard, not profile 2.0. This means that when 2.0 players are produced, 1.1 players will still be manufactured and sold at the same time. Having two different types of machines being sold each playing a subset of features on discs will be too confusing for the consumer I think.

I guess you might say it will be like the situation with console SKUs (although we only have one PS3 SKU here in Australia now), but I think for a product like Blu-ray, the more simpler it is, the more willing the consumer is to accept it. The type of customers that high def movies need to reach (ie. pretty much every single person that uses DVDs, which is pretty much everybody, from granddads to teenagers) is different to gamers, who are very tech savvy and will not be wary of multiple models and their technical specs. Perhaps why a third of the people who have adopted Blu-ray did not purchase the PS3, even though it's more future proof, faster, and not all that much noisier, suggests that even some early adopters are not like gamers and don't want to get bogged down with too technical stuff - they just want a player to stick a disc in and for everything to work, like it is with DVDs.

The biggest obstacle in high def's way is actually the good old single profile DVD that people are already used to. To introduce something different, the concept of profiles and "upgradable" hardware that will introduce new features every couple of years (and hence, force people to have the "need" to upgrade) will just make them say "Ok, when you make a players with everything and with no more upgrades, then I'll buy into Blu-ray. Until then, I'll just stick with good old (upscaled) DVDs".

[damanisjon]

I guess thats true! lazy gits just want to stick it in and watch it!
It all comes back to people not knowing what they are buying.. and like I said.. buying something due to the low cost of it, rather than the specifications compared to the more expensive models.

Where my opinion differs is that I think that everyone should be able to do the minimum which is what you can do with DVD but in high definition. Everything else its not really nescessary.. nor I think non tech savy consumers would be interested in it.

What im trying to say is that if you dont buy something because you are afraid something better is gona come along, you will never buy anything! Like a car.. Ipod...Console... etc.. even tvs.. you could say.. why buy LCD of OLED will arrive eventually..
But having different types of things that do the same thing just with different extras for different prices is annoying. Thats why I hope the HD format wars come to a close regardless of whom wins. It confuses the consumer and it doesnt allow technology to flow, and surely its going to have lots of casualties..

[admin]

BBC's take on the same story:

Blu-ray future limited for some

Owners of Blu-ray DVD players may find themselves frozen out of future developments in the technology because their machines are not upgradeable.

[BR7]

That seems like a trend from everyone not just BDA.DVD players did this, they went from just playing DVD and CDs and a few other features I can not think of.Then they progressed to adding Progressive scan,Divx,MP3s and so on.HDTVs were the same way also they went from 1080i with NO HDMI ports.The next faze of HDTVs went to 1080i with HDMI ports then they went to 1080p with everything you need at the moment, but who knows how long that will last.
I have also been reading that a lot of people don't care about BD live they just want to play the movies with out the bells and whistles.I also did my home work and got the PS3 because it was future proof

Here is a list of upcoming players that should be future proof like the Playstation 3 (all models of PS3's have 1080P/24 and (xvYCC) with Firmware 1.80 or higher) (PIP and BD-live fully compatible)
Daewoo DBP-1000 Blu-ray Player (coming 2008) (PIP and BD-live fully compatible)
Daewoo DBP-2000 Blu-ray Player (coming 2008) (PIP and BD-live fully compatible)
Denon DVD-3800BDCI Blu-ray Player (coming Jan 2008) (PIP fully compatible)
Denon DVD-2500BTCI Blu-ray Player (coming Jan 2008) (PIP fully compatible)
Marantz BD8002 Blu-ray Player (coming 1st quarter 2008) (PIP fully compatible)
Panasonic DMP-BD30 Blu-ray Player (PIP fully compatible)
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Here is a list of players with specs LINK

[admin]

Apparently, and this comes from Amir who works for Microsoft and has worked on HD DVD (check out the insider thread on AVSforum), that the Ethernet abilities in HD DVD players can easily open up a range of new functions, such as allowing for online movie downloads and LAN based functions such as media file sharing. So all HD DVD players can essentially be turned into movie downloaders or media playback hubs (similar to what the Xbox 360 can do as a media extender), and the same can be applied to any Profile 2.0 Blu-ray player using BD-J. The hardware is there, it's just the software that will soon be added.

One example could be Blu-ray movies with AACS managed copy, allowing you to transfer a 1:1 copy of the film to your UPnP device so you can stream the movie to your Blu-ray 2.0 player - allowing you to maintain your movie collection digitally, as the disc simply becomes a carrier of data (and the backup), rather than an essential piece for playback. Copy protection and such would still exist to make it difficult to share the copied file with anybody else. Of course, large external hard-drives with UPnP (most new external drives support this already) and wired Ethernet will also be needed, but a totally digital movie storage solution makes searching and watching movies a lot easier. Then as people are used to the idea of digitally storing their movies, the next step would be to eliminate the disc altogether and offer downloads.

Another example instead of downloading would be where you purchase a movie online and it offers you a managed environment where you have unlimited access to your digital movie files. Normally, you would just access this storage to stream movie playback (it's not on demand or "pay per view", it's more like an online storage solution to store your purchased files), or you could download them to local storage if needed. Of course, this is not feasible given current bandwidth limitations, but it will be something for 5 years down the track.

It seems to me that this is the vision for the next-next-gen of video distribution, and that HD DVD and Blu-ray 2.0 hardware can already implement this vision with a firmware update or two. It's almost as if these players are being used as trojan horses to get people ready for online movie services. I wouldn't dismiss the current online capabilities of HD DVD and Blu-ray's BD-Live as just a gimmick, although that's what they are essentially now without the proper applications to make full use of it.

If you think about it, it's actually quite exciting (the managed copy + digital storage is something I've been dreaming about for ages). But make sure you have a Profile 2.0 Blu-ray player or one that can be upgraded to it in the future, because it would be a shame to miss out.

[damanisjon]

lol forget about the movie market becoming online media downloads! Here in the UK anyway and at least for the next 5 years!! Here in the uk BT has only JUST started replacing the lines with adsl2 which allow up to 25mb.. which probably the nearerst you will get is 15/17mb in reality and only for a few people who live near the exchange. If a bluray film+ extras was 25gb and in the future that could even double with a double layer... you would take up to a whole week to download! you have to remember that the average over here is 2mb connections! I think everyone would rather prefer to just buy the film... not to say that half the population in england wouldnt know how to set up the media downloads, opening ports and so on... etc..

[BR7]

I for one would like to show off my movie collection with my movies in cases.It would seem kind of cheesy to show off my collection of HDDs full of movies LOL

[NightTran]

I for one would like to show off my movie collection with my movies in cases.It would seem kind of cheesy to show off my collection of HDDs full of movies LOL

I dont know, but not how much money you have in your bank but how much money you actually have that is what I think

[BR7]

Not for me my friend I enjoy movies a whole lot .My movie collection is one of the few things I take pride in.It's no different then someone showing off their,Football,baseball,basketball and Nascar memorabilia or what ever else they collect

[admin]

With the managed copy, local server storage idea, you would still have the discs and you can still show them off (and they act as backups), but you won't need them for playback anymore. There are already (somewhat expensive) commercial solutions for doing this with DVD, and with a Media Center like interface where you can search and play movies (complete with covers/details from online DBs). This is why Microsoft is releasing Windows Media Server and why it has gathered a surprising amount of interest. Sony even demonstrated their own type of managed copy, allowing a copy of a film to be stored on the disc to use with the PSP, even though it means competing with their UMD format. Fox is doing the same with iPod compatible versions of the film on DVDs and possibly Blu-rays. For them, the disc is just another way to distribute digital versions of their films, which otherwise would be on iTunes or similar online download stores.

Even the fairly gimmicky online features of HD DVDs have been used by more than 30% of all HD DVD users, so even right now, there's somewhat of a demand for this kind of feature. Fox at the recent CES said that "The future is Blu. The future is BD-Live", and that's been the BDA's message during this CES. It's almost as if they're saying "don't buy profile 1.1 players".

Online downloads will take a bit more time, because of the bandwidth requirements. But just like Blu-ray started development more than 8 years ago, and if online downloads is the next thing the industry is looking towards, then development and testing has already started. Certainly in the US, where bandwidth is cheap and fast, it's already possible - the rest of the world will have to catch up. It might seem far fetched now, but as Amir said in the insider thread, in 2016, can you imagine yourself still carrying an optical disc around and using something with motors to just watch movies?

And Apple, Sony and Microsoft have already launched or about to launch their online movie download services for the Apple TV, PS3 and Xbox 360. This is where things are headed, even though people might not like it (I certainly prefer discs right now than downloads, although I prefer disc -> digital storage even more) or think it's realistic.