HTML5 vs Flash: War on the Horizon

[dr_ml422]

I'm posting this here as it relates to HTML5. Feel free to move it if need be. Google is becoming a Royal pita. Pun really.

http://newteevee.com/2010/04/12/google-to-open-source-vp8-for-html5-video/

Maybe this is another one of their bate and switch schemes to lure in the other mega powers and then flip somehow and charge later etc... Anything's possible w/Google now.

[admin]

So the situation right now is:

H.264 - Great quality, plenty of industry support, not free
Theora - Poor quality (relatively speaking), no industry support, free

And now:

VP8 - Good quality, low industry support, and now free

The problem is that nobody is going to use VP8. H.264 is used in Blu-ray, Apple's QuickTime, Flash, YouTube, Microsoft holds some patents for the format as well, and out of all the new generation codecs, it is the most popular one used online by websites and also by users. And GPU assisted decoding for H.264 exists for all the major platforms, GeForce, Radeon, Intel.

It's all good that Google is providing a middle of the road solution to the H.264/Theora HTML5 debate by offering a free, but better quality codec, but without industry support, it's basically useless. Without hardware acceleration, you can forget about playing HD content on netbooks, let alone portable devices. Now, if Google can convince the likes of Nvidia, ATI and Intel to provide hardware acceleration for VP8, then this might change things, but it still won't stop H.264 being the format of choice for companies like Apple. And who's going to use VP8 if Apple's iPod, iPhone and iPad won't support it?

This whole mess could have been avoided if HTML5 defined a set of mandatory supported codecs. But the W3C they chickened out on a decision, and left it up to browser makers to decide which codec they will support. The only real solution I can see is if royalties are waived for H.264 decoding in browsers, so that all the browser manufacturers can provide support for it without having to incur costs. It's much better than introducing yet another video codec into the fold at this late stage.

[dr_ml422]

Well being that Google is rubbing many the wrong way it's highly unlikely that the Big Boys like Apple and Uncle Bill will remove Royalty Fees or even look at Google for this move. Google will get the likes of Mozilla and other freeware Browsers on board but imo that won't be enough. They can forget about Aplle being duped again or all the other companies they screwed over lately.

Maybe this just might be the rallying point for Apple, Uncle Bill and Yahoo etc... One way or another anyway.

Otn I'm pumping IE 64 now and it's zooming. No Flash though. They're about done prolly being HTML5 is practically in w/H.264.

[admin]

Just saw this:

[dr_ml422]

Are these your examples on your different phones, or something you found on the net? I mean I see no difference except the missing Flash Hero if that's him. It's been a while since I followed The Justice League.

[admin]

That was just a joke picture, making fun of the fact that the iPhone/iPad doesn't support Adobe Flash, and that "missing plugin" graphics is what happens when Flash content is displayed on the iPhone/iPad browser.

[dr_ml422]

I see. Well so much for the free Adobe Flash. Guess everyone had a good run with them. I never saw another 3rd party to use for videos since I really got into this. That's why this computer world is great. Always something new on the horizon.

[admin]

Apple has now released technical documents that could allow Adobe to add GPU acceleration for Macs to its Flash plugin:

http://erictric.com/2010/04/22/apple-to-allow-gpu-acceleration-for-flash-on-mac-os-x-10-6-3/

[dr_ml422]

Apple has now released technical documents that could allow Adobe to add GPU acceleration for Macs to its Flash plugin:

http://erictric.com/2010/04/22/apple...c-os-x-10-6-3/

Is this any indicator about reservations w/HTML5 and paying the fees? I know all these guys can turn on a dime though after so much already between Google and Apple and the others, I wouldn't think Apple be partnering w/Google correct?

[admin]

The whole thing is quite complicated, there are in fact several battles going on. At the top level, the battle is between HTML5 and Flash. HTML5 can do what Flash does for videos at least without the need for people to install a plugin like Flash, so an HTML5 browser will be able to play YouTube HTML5 videos out of the box.

Apple doesn't really care too much for Adobe though, which is why the iPad doesn't support Flash. But by releasing the technical documents, it allows Abode to add GPU acceleration to Flash for Mac systems at least. Adobe needs to improve the features of Flash, like adding GPU assist for all major platforms, if they want to remain competitive against HTML5.

However, when you get to HTML5, there are several more battles going on between the various video formats that HTML5 will support. Right now, it's basically H.264 vs Ogg Theora vs VP8.

Apple, Microsoft, Google supports H.264, the only format out of the three that requires royalty payments, which some browser makers don't want to pay.

Mozilla (Firefox), Google and Opera, I think, supports Theora

Google owns VP8, and they've just made it open source, so very likely Firefox and Opera will support VP8 as well.

The in-fighting within HTML5 could help Adobe Flash, as Adobe can claim Flash is still the most compatible format. But all browser maker agree that relying on a third party solution like Flash isn't as good as having native browser support for videos using HTML5. But only if the various groups can get over their differences, otherwise we will have a standard that doesn't carry over from browser to browser (making it a pain in the neck for websites that want to publish video).

[dr_ml422]

So Google is playing all sides against the middle then by supporting H.264 and still owning VP8 and not wanting to pay? The other Big Boys like MS and Apple will have to imo get together soon and start making moves that will make Google think twice. I and prolly many could care less about the Theora and Mozilla browsers. I'm for software that works period. Though lets face it theese free open source browsers are not all that and even more experienced members here and users have become tired of all the daily/wekly updates/upgrades.

You know VP8 isn't going to make any splash, and Flash was good and still is though as you pointed out built in native support is way better.

Ogg Theora also isn't going to win aginst MS and Apple.

Let us know Google's crazy madness which to them is a method. Thnx.

[admin]

Here's a breakdown of H.264 licensing:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/h264-patents-how-much-do-they-really-cost/2122

[doctorhardware]

It is the typical chicken little syndrome where the sky is falling.

[dr_ml422]

Wow! So according to those figures the Big Boys like MS and Apple etc... who support H.264 for the HTML5 are looking at less than pennies relatively. Those other crybabies need to wake up or at least really say why they won't support it! Can't be the $$$ now.

[admin]

Pennies per user though, times several hundred million downloads ...

But even then, it's not huge money for these companies, but I guess for open source software like Mozilla, it doesn't really fit into their licensing model.