Authoring & Sync Problems

**Bambusbln** · 4 Feb 2004, 03:13 AM

Audio video async problem hauppauge pvr 250/350

As I had the same trouble since I use this f***ing card for more over a year, I have read some posts in various forums about the problem of asynchron Audio/Video with MPEG-videos recorded by the hardware MPEG encoder card Hauppauge PVR 250/350

The funny thing is that the MPEG-2-recording (DVD quality) with this card seems absolutely fine at first and also seems to be A/V-synchron. However as soon as the MPEG gets edited, cut or otherwise rendered again or put on a DVD, the A/V gets asynchron the longer the MPEG goes, usually already noticeable after 30 minutes. Obviously there are lost or "empty" frames in the video which get filtered out by rendering again. If only 10 frames are lost, you will notice this by asynchron audio.

There were a lot of ideas about why this problem occurs and a lot suggestions were made to solve it, some of them helped some people a bit, none of them did really solve the problem. A couple of ideas were just silly, like: "There is a time-code on a VHS-tape which the card doesnt work out well" etc. It is simply bull**** that any digitalizing hard- or software uses the timeline of the VHS-tape, as the only information transferred to the input of your computer will be the RGB-signal and the audio-signal.

Recently I tried digitalized my VHS-videos with another card, a simple TV-card without MPEG-hardware-encoding. I used WinDVR, a wonderful program for recording and the card is (paradoxically also Hauppauge) a Win-TV-PCI. Now wonder what happens? Even with long MPEGs (4 GB) the audio stays ABSOLUTELY synchron, before and also after cutting, editing and rendering again. I tried with many videos and hours and hours of stuff, always same fine result, no problem anymore.

There is only one conclusion:
The hardware encoder of the PVR250 itself produces this problem and Hauppauge doesnt seem to be able to solve it by driver updates (anyway they are poor with new software and drivers, the last ones are from middle of last year, even this card is supposed to go with the new Windows media center computers, poor guys who buy it...). I guess they dont acknowledge the problem or maybe they are simply not able to solve it because it cant be solved by software, only by hardware.

There is only one solution, guys:
Get rid of this ****ing card and sell it as long as still anybody (poor guy again) wants to have it.

For those who want to keep it anyway or cannot afford a new (simple, cheap) TV-card or graphic card with TV-in (ATI wonder etc.), only one thing helps: render your MPEGs in small pieces at 20-30 minutes and then reconnect them, rendering them again. Complicated, time-wasting, but at least the A/V stays mostly synchron.

Best regards
Bambusbln

**Quality's Proof** · 8 Feb 2004, 09:37 AM

I have a Hauppauge pvr card, also.

Hauppauge's technicians have already admitted they do not have a software solution and their suggestion to use (buy) TMPEG was laughable.

We could file a "class action defective manufacture claim". That is the solution. We could get our money refunded and then buy a standalone dvd recorder and not have such a bugaboo to contend with.

What say we start a thread in boycott heading?

**Ranger One** · 8 Feb 2004, 11:37 AM

"Hauppauge's technicians have already admitted they do not have a software solution and their suggestion to use (buy) TMPEG was laughable".

That certainly isn't what I wanted to hear. The reason I bought the card was to avoid having to use extra programs & lot's of extra time. By the way I did buy TMPGENC > still had sync problems!!

**Quality's Proof** · 8 Feb 2004, 12:03 PM

Yeah, that's why I said buying TMPEG was/is laughable. What is so disturbing is that so many problems and so many posts suggesting/advising use of such. Seems almost (or is) as if some posters are "tele-marketing" software on forum whereas there are so many posts and threads which reveal the softwares' limitations. Seems some don't like my observations, but still the threads and posts do factually support such.

As to Hauppauge, all I see is a "class action suit" to recover some/all of our money via a defective manufacture (and/or misrepresentation) claims suit. We could do such. Hauppauge should be willing to settle soon.....only thing is lawyer's will receive large part of settlement....but, then some would be better than none, 'twould seem. There are some extremely irate persons whom have bought Hauppauge pvr cards.

But, Hauppauge technicians admit they have no solution and my soldering iron does have a fine tip, but I don't care to use it for such. This is a problem I really don't want to solve except the "class action" solution as such (if won) would cause other card makers to be more forthcoming in their real spec.'s.

**turet** · 10 Feb 2004, 02:37 PM

Nah, we're not selling the software. I had the exact opposite problem. VS7 would pull the audio and video out of sync when I inserted chapter points (by selecting a set number or a set duration), but TMPGE has been absolutely fine with that. I'm not using the same capture card you are...I've had more than my share of problems with the one I do have....

**Quality's Proof** · 10 Feb 2004, 05:10 PM

Was TMPGE included with your card and not as a trialware/shareware or did you have to buy that software?

Either way, capture cards are going the way of the dodo, due to lousy customer support and software which is difficult to make work correctly, expensive software suggested as solution to hardware design problem, etc.. The Standalone DVR's are @ $250.00 @ Walmart and there are all kinds of "changeovers: which work and are easy to use for a 1 : 1 digital transfer.

**turet** · 11 Feb 2004, 10:29 AM

No, I got an older, watered-down version of Sonic MyDVD with my capture device. Actually not a card, but the Adaptec VideOh. The Sonic software's not that bad but it won't a) allow inputting chapter points after the file's been saved and b) allow compression.

Using that capture device, plus TMPGE DVD Author and DVD Shrink, I've been able to do almost everything I need to do. The exception is changing/adding audio tracks. I might be able to use Roxio for that, but then I probably can't burn from that (everyone has trouble)...so I may have to pop for DVD Lab, which isn't that expensive and has some nice features.

Digital transfer won't work for me...way too much editing necessary.

**turet** · 11 Feb 2004, 10:35 AM

BTW, TMPGE DVD AUthor now is available with a dolby (AC3) plug-in. This is great as it saves a lot of audio space. A two-hour movie, for example, requires that I shrink the video a lot less, giving better picture quality, than when I was working with Linear PCM files.

**Quality's Proof** · 12 Feb 2004, 05:46 AM

The standalone dvr is what I'm getting next (As soon as I find a DVD-r recorder), I'll get 1 ; 1 and that will work.

$250 for a + R ain't bad, but I want the -R model (somewhere) for to play in my standalone.

**Tylast** · 1 Mar 2004, 04:38 PM

I have the latest TMPENC DVD Author & the auido still goes out of sync gradually when encoding to MP2 audio. It's always on for the first 2 minutes & then goes out of sync upwards of 10 seconds as the video plays. VERY ANNOYING!

**kevin abq** · 2 Mar 2004, 04:53 AM

You guys gotta remember that when you try to capture from tape, any tape, you're going to have timing issues caused by tape stretch and mechanical slop. These are what make lip-sync a real iffy thing. You can also create lip-sync problems by excessive post-processing like demuxing, heavy editing, etc. On the hardware side you can do one of two things:
1) Buy yourself a TBC and install it between your video source and your capture card
2) Buy yourself a standalone recorder that has a TBC built-in. Not many have this, and Philips tries to palm off it's "Virtual TBC" as being the same thing. It's not. You want one with a real TBC. The Panasonic units all have this, at least the newer ones like the E50, E60, E80, etc.

I capture anywhere from 20 to 50 movies a week from tape and transfer to DVD-R. Take my word for it, I went around and around with lip-sync and at one point even demuxed, resampled the audio and remuxed in an attempt to get good sync. That was before I bought a standalone TBC. Now lip-sync problems are just a bad memory. My new standalone recorder, a Panny E50, has a built-in TBC that's very robust. Haven't got bad lip-sync yet from any of the tapes I've capped with it

**Tylast** · 2 Mar 2004, 01:37 PM

No the case here! My original MPEGs have NO sync problems. I run them through TMPENC DVD Author & the audio sync is off in ALL of them.

**Ranger One** · 2 Mar 2004, 02:11 PM

"No the case here! My original MPEGs have NO sync problems. I run them through TMPENC DVD Author & the audio sync is off in ALL of them".

I've run into the same problem. The captured file plays fine on the computer. Authoring is usually when the problems show up. I've ran the captured files thru Womble & PVA Strumento > they show all kinds of errors.

From everything I've read I guess I'm going to have to get the Datavideo TBC-1000 time base corrector & insert that between my vcr's & my capture card. I sure hope this solve this problem!

Has anyone used the TBC 1000 with the Hauppauge PVR 250 & then been able to use TMPGENC DVD Author to author properly??

**Tylast** · 2 Mar 2004, 02:24 PM

OK, is there a program that can repair my MPEGs? I don't want to have to re-encode them all.

Authoring & Sync Problems

Authoring & Sync Problems

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