TV Capture Hardware: What's Best?

[TomBrooklyn]

I want to capture and record TV programming on my computer and convert VHS to DVD.

Any thoughts on which is the best device?

External USB vs. Internal PCI?

Adaptec
Hauppage
Pinnicle
ATI
etc.

[MuttLover]

I want to capture and record TV programming on my computer and convert VHS to DVD.

Any thoughts on which is the best device?

External USB vs. Internal PCI?

Adaptec
Hauppage
Pinnicle
ATI
etc.

As long as you are not talking HD/TV capture, I have had great luck with Haupauge both for VHS capture and TV capture. The mpeg editor that comes with it sucks though...but the card has hardware compression and captures VHS great. You can set it to produce DVD compatible mpg files. Also functions as a DVR.

Check http://www.hauppauge.com/ for the DVR series.

[anonymez]

tombrooklyn, you may want to read a couple of posts here, som common questions are answered in my posts http://forums.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?t=55940

they are essentially all the same. no difference in quality/speed. IMO just get one with BDA drivers so you have a range of software to choose from.

as for choosing USB/PCI, pick one that suits your needs. if you wish to use it in more than 1, or a laptop, usb is better. if you want it in a single pc, go with pci.

[DiscCoasterPro]

Hello. I am a struggling newbie, (and I DO mean struggling). Afer reading this post on capture devices and the quality of their product, and especially the part about BDA Drivers for range of software, (dunno what BDA drivers are though) I hope you don't mind me jumping in with a related question.

Although I do not want to capture directly from TV, I do have many VHS tapes, VHS-C tapes, and even 8mm tapes that I want to convert.

I purchased what I foolishly thought was "your average" external usb analog to digital converter. It cost me 90 bucks. It is called a Video Home XTV2.0 It is a USB2 device. I have a P4 2.8 HT 800mhz FSB with 1gig of dual channel memory. I am struggling with the concept of "field order" as well as an intermittent audio / video sync problem on long captures with this device. I have to stop the capture, save and restart to get the sound back correctly.

The software that came with this device only allows for mpeg-2 saves in various quality, although not a choice of "field order" which as I said, I really don't quite understand. I have multiple mpeg-2 clips that I would like to mix and menu together with some DV footage we shot with our digital camcorder. I have Ulead VS9 and DVD Workshop 2 for that, but I don't know if it even can be done.

To avoid all these problems I just ordered a Canopus model 300 external firewire device that I'm hoping I can save to AVI. Also after reading about it, it claims to be able to eliminated out of sync A/V problems which I thought was interesting. I thought that bad stuff only happened to me. It sure cost enough, now though, after reading the above posts, I'm wondering if this was a wise choice.

I wonder if anyone could take a second and go over the field order concept and also how and when to change it, and can AVIs be mixed with Mpeg-2s in a NLEditor or Authoring program, and is this Canopus device going to have BDA drivers?

thanks much,
dcp

[Taelon]

DCP, I don't know much about this capturing stuff, but when did that ever stop me from chiming in. I do understand the basics of Field Order so perhaps I can clarify that a little bit.

First off you should understand that when TV was first invented back in the '30's or '40's they needed to come up with a system that would work within a limited frequency range and not require huge amounts of bandwidth. They also needed to design it so the internal signals could be clocked off the power line frequency, so in the US we have 60hz AC so NTSC video is about 30 (actually 29.97) frames per second, in Europe and Australia they have 50hz AC, PAL is 25 fps.

(the following is paraphrased from the avisynth.org documents)
When a video camcorder records video, it doesn't record full images, like a film camera does. Instead, it records two images at half size, and mixes them together line for line - interlacing them. When played on a TV the image is reconstructed by displaying every other line (lines 1, 3, 5, 7, 9), then displays the other lines it missed (lines 2, 4, 6, 8, 10) of the same frame. Each frame requires two passes (Each pass contains a field). So the image recorded on the the odd numbered lines is displayed followed by the field with the even numbered lines. This fools the eye into thinking it's seeing full sizes images at the simulated 50 or 59.94 fps.

Which brings us to Field order. If the odd number lines are displayed first it's referred to as TFF (Top Field First), if the even number lines are displayed first it's BFF (Bottom Field First). Now my understanding is that DV is usually BFF, while an (interlaced) DVD is normally TFF (top field first), I have no idea why, and it really doesn't matter unless you're trying to combine the streams in a NLE. If you do want to combine them, one or the other needs to be re-encoded before combining them so that their field orders match.

I also don't know of any software that can mix and match avi and mpg, you'll need to convert one or the other to the same container type, framerate and codec before you can splice them together.

hope this helps

[anonymez]

taelon is correct

for an excellent guide on interlacing, see here: http://www.100fps.com

BDA drivers are used for digital tv capture/watching, (whether terrestrial or satellite), not for regular capture devices. my digital tv card (an avermedia) has an s-video input, where i can record off VHS if i wish. that specific function does not need BDA drivers, almost any program will work, including virtuadlub. BDA drivers are needed if i wish to watch/record any digital tv on programs other than the official one. (which i can honestly say is the worst piece of software i have seen in my life!, other than adware/spyware)

[DiscCoasterPro]

Wow, reading that explanation was like trying to absorb the atlantic ocean into a kitchen sponge. My pea brain being the sponge of course.

I have been trying to understand if field order settings are determined during the final DVD burning stage / "save to file" stage in my Ulead VS9 program. I believe it is, however, I'm not sure if the program changes everything it comes across during encoding / rendering to the project setting preferences regardless of mixed clip field orders that may be in the timeline.

I believe I have read that digital video is lower field first, and analog is upper field first. Now that statement just seems like a moot point to me since EVERYTHING that ends up in my computer or on my DVD is digital ... lol ... I just don't get it. I mean, if I capture an analog signal, once its in my computer, its digital <sigh> so whats the relevance of even being concerned about field order if everything is digital and everything digital is lower field first. (whew)

Also, the reason I'm unclear on mixing different video file types with potentially different field orders on my UVS9 timeline is this following excerpt from the user manual.

"To add Video and Images"
Click "Insert Video" to add video of different formats such as AVI, MPEG, and WMV."

Now you would think, that in the above passage, if the program couldn't handle different types at the same time, this would be the spot in the manual to elaborate on that.

I've successfully made DVDs from different file type clips but the quality of the mpeg stuff isn't very good. It just shows a little funny on the TV and I'm not sure if it was a result of the crumby capture via that xtv device or if its a field order thing. I'll get a better idea after that Canopus device comes. But this is an expensive way to learn. LOL. Sooner or later all these puzzle pieces will come together and I'll catch on.

thanks for helping,
dcp

[Taelon]

DCP, those are all good questions but since I don't have access to VS9 and have limited experience with any NLE's. I really have no idea how they process field order or how it internally handles clips of various formats. I would guess that if it's smart enough, it would indeed change

everything it comes across during encoding / rendering to the project setting preferences regardless of mixed clip field orders that may be in the timeline.

and could possibly decode various video formats or field orders as they are being loaded. I do think that before too long you'll be one of the resident NLE experts around here and in the future when I finally get to play with DV, I'll be asking you for advice.

[DiscCoasterPro]

Thanks for the words of encouragement! At my age though, learning is like drinking beer. For some reason l loose more than I take in.

[TomBrooklyn]

Well, I bought a Haupauge card. I haven't tried it for converting VHS yet, but I tried recording TV with it and was very disappointed with the quality. The quality is much lower than VHS.

[MikeyBK]

Well, I bought a Haupauge card. I haven't tried it for converting VHS yet, but I tried recording TV with it and was very disappointed with the quality. The quality is much lower than VHS.

You could try to increase the capture bitrate. Hauppages' WinTV2000 program can be set to capture at a constant bitrate of 12.0 MB/s.

Also, do you have digital cable?