How to combine Laserdisc sound and DVD video?

[LouP]

Hello all,
I have a number of laserdiscs that I keep despite the inferior picture quality simply because of the full-rich sound. I also have the same movies on DVD because of the superior picture quality. From what I've been able to determine from days of research - and some full-blown headaches - is that it might be possible to somehow combine the two so that I could have the best DVD video and the laserdisc sound on 1 writable DVD using available software. I am familiar with DVD Shrink and have backed up the video-without any audio streams-on my hard drive and can do the same with the laserdisc audio. Now to just combine the two. I do have Ulead DVD Moviefactory 3 on my computer but it's "Greek" to me. Any help on how to accomplish this task would be greatly appreciated.

[Taelon]

I'd have to question if LD sound is actually superior to DVD, and if you were to go to the trouble of converting the analog track to use on a DVD±R it's not likely to be as high of a quality digital soundrack as the original DVD 5.1 stream. Sure it can be done, but I don't see where it would be worth the effort.

Take a look at what the official DVD FAQ has to say about the pros and cons of DVD vs LD here: http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#2.7

[LouP]

Thanks for your response Taelon but there are, in my opinion, a number of movies where the stereo Dolby Pro-Logic sound from a laserdisc sounds alot more dynamic and superior to the 5.1 DD track of the same movie on DVD. The films that come to mind are, Forrest Gump, Hoosiers, Contact, Forbidden Planet, The Natural, to name a few. Of course the video on the DVD is much superior and I need the detail as I'm throwing these pictures on a 10 foot wide screen. In this thread I'm just trying to find a way to successfully match-up the quality sound with quality video and not debate the merits of DVD Vs Laserdisc. So if anyone can point me in the right direction, I sure would appreciate it. I know it came be done, but trying to read and understand the method is very frustrating to someone who doesn't understand the lingo. It took me a week just to learn DVD Shrink to back up my movies.

[anonymez]

to mux (combine) the audio and video streams, download & install tmpgenc 2.5 and use its 'mpeg tools' to do the job

you could also use 'projectx' as well, i believe...

[Taelon]

LouP, Sorry if I didn't state my points clearly and concisely, I understand you aren't looking for a debate and honestly I know nothing about LDs other than what I've read. I was just trying (in a roundabout way) to outline some of the potential problems and pitfalls in attempting to convert the audio, in that the end result may not be worth the effort.

the stereo Dolby Pro-Logic sound from a laserdisc sounds alot more dynamic and superior to the 5.1 DD track of the same movie on DVD.

Can you please clarify if you are speaking about the analog or digital channel? This is a key issue as they both present a different set of hurdles to overcome. I'll assume you're talking about a digital audio stream, which eliminates the biggest hurdle, but these potential problems remain. (Please note I'm not an expert in this area, and I'm not trying to shoot you down, I'm just trying to prevent you from wasting alot of time due to these potential problems.)

First you'll need to identify the source audio format, it could be LPCM, Dolby Digital surround at a data rate of 448 kbps, or DTS at 768 kbps or higher.

I'm sure anonymez means well, but I doubt that TMPGenc or similar encoders will support audio encoding at these rates. This leads to Two more issues which need to be considered, either transcoding the audio to a lower bit-rate or finding an encoder & multiplexer that can process the audio without transcoding it (assuming the audio falls within DVD standards).

Transcoding to a lower bit-rate; Even if you can find a reasonably priced transoder/encoder will handle the high bit-rate source DTS , once the audio is transcoded you will have lost some of the audios advantage of the Laserdisc due to lowering the bit-rate and/or compression.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68300
Of the several commercial encoders available, all known commercial encoders are based on the Dolby software encoder. SonicFoundry SoftEncode and other older AC3 encoders use Dolby v 6.6.2, newer encoders such as the SonicFoundry Acid plugin use Dolby v 7.

The only free encoder is part of the ffmpeg project and is generally considered to be not as high quality as a commercial encoder using the Dolby libraries. However, incompatibilities with AC3 specs should be solved now, and using BeSweet 1.5b26 or later is a good choice for free, multichannel AC3 encoding.

Multiplex the audio without transcoding; You'll be limited by what is allowed by the DVD-Video specifications and by the multiplexer. Here are the audio choices available within Muxman:

• AC3 - 48K sampling rate, any bitrate, any channel configuration.
• DTS - 48K sampling rate, 768Kbps or 1536Kbps, 5.1 channels.
• mpeg-1 layer II 48K sampling rate, 1 or 2 channels, any bitrate, or 3 to 6 channels with extension.
• LPCM - 48K or 96K sampling rate, 16/20/24-bit 1 to 8 channels as allowed.

Once the audio is in a DVD suitable format, you'll probably need to re-sync it to the video, and assuming the audio is at the highest quality setting you can use, the bit-rate will likely take up more space than all the existing DVD audio tracks, which will require that the video be compressed further.

If you are projecting to a large screen you will want to retain the highest possible video quality. Since DVD Shrink, Nero Recode, etc. are transcoders there will always be a noticeable quality reduction. I'd suggest you seriously look at purchasing DVD-Rebuilder Pro (currently only $10) and the CCE encoder (about $50) for re-coding your project with a Variable Video Bit-Rate to achieve the highest quality available for your project.

In the end you are proposing something which would be a challenge to someone intimately familiar with the re-authoring process. I'm sure with determination and perseverance all the issues I've raised can be overcome. I'd recommend doing some extensive Google research, I'm sure other audiophiles have attempted and perhaps succeded in overcoming the hurdles.

I truly wish you the best of luck and hope this helps

[nwg]

I have had laserdiscs since 1997 and a couple of years before I got into DVD. The sound on laserdisc is better than DVD. It is also often that the laserdisc gets full bitrate DTS whereas, the DVD just gets half bitrate.

I can see problems such as lip sync appearing very quickly when trying to do what you want.

[LouP]

Gentlemen - - -I just tried an experiment this morning and I don't know why this hadn't occurred to me earlier. I used a stand-alone DVD recorder to transfer one of my laserdisc movies to a writable DVD disc. The audio track, I believe is nothing more than analog 2 channel stereo but the writable disc sounds just as good as the laserdisc. My laserdisc player has only analog rca outputs. No AC-3 for this boy - I don't feel like putting out $300.00+ to buy a laserdisc player with digital outputs just to play about 15 laserdiscs. I suppose I could just stop here and be satisfied with whatever picture I get running the writable DVD disc through my upconversion DVD player but . . . . I'm thinking now that were dealing with simple analog sound my original idea might be easier to accomplish. Yes . . .I'm aware of syncing problems but the software that I might be using, hopefully, will have time and frame increments. The point you make, Taelon, about after all is said and done the end result not sounding as good as the original DD 5.1 track is certainly valid. But, I'm retired with lots of time and until I actually do it . . .I'll never know. Thanks again.

[Taelon]

LouP, keep us posted if you get a chance. I'd really like to hear how it works out for ya