4:3 display on a 16:9 TV

[blutach]

http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?postid=313442#post313442

But a well authored DVD should already have the video attributes properly set.

Regards

[drfsupercenter]

No, what I mean is this. The stream is 4:3 but when I put it in a 16:9 player it tells it to add the black bars. Without me changing it manually. It has nothing to do with the attributes. See, in Ulead, I can work in 19:9 mode, which will add black bars to the sides, but then in a 4:3 TV there are bars surrounding the picture, forcing me to zoom in. That is all I mean.

[blutach]

Just set up the players and the TVs correctly. Tell the player it's going to be played on a 4:3 and the black bars will appear.

Regards

[drfsupercenter]

No, they won't. I have to set it to "vertical fit". However, what I am asking is how to do this IN the DVD. So that the disc tells the player to do that, not the user. I will send you the IFOs for The Incredibles if you would like to take a look at those, for the special features do exactly what I want my DVD to do.

[blutach]

What are the vid attributes? 16:9 auto letterbox and P&S?

Regards

[drfsupercenter]

Not sure. I will check once I Decrypt the DVD. You are talking about The Incredibles, right?

[blutach]

I'm talking about whatever disk is troubling you.

Regards

[drfsupercenter]

Ah. Now this is interesting. The Incredibles says 16:9 (pan-scan) in IFOEdit. That explains it - the 4:3 video, by default, has black bars on the side, and it tells the player to zoom in on a 4:3 TV. The problem disc is 4:3. Is there an easy way (Ulead can do this but requires re-encoding) to add the black bars to the sides and then use IFOEdit to set the default action to pan and scan?

[blutach]

No - all you need to do is label its video attributes as 4:3

Regards

[r0lZ]

Well, there are many confusing things in this thread. Let's explain.

The DVD player must be configured according to your TV resolution, either in 4:3 or 16:9. If you chose 4:3, another parameter is (normally) available: you may chose to display 16:9 material preferably in 16:9 with black borders (letterbox), or preferably in full screen (pan & scan), but the left and right side of the image will be hidden.

A 4:3 TV is unable to display 16:9 material. So, it is the responsability of the player to convert 16:9 video to 4:3, by stretching the signal horizontally and by adding the black borders (for letterbox) or by zooming in the stretched image (for pan & scan.) The TV will therefore always receive a 4:3 signal.

In the other hand, a 16:9 TV is able to display properly a 4:3 and a 16:9 signal. If the video is in 16:9 anamorphic, the signal will be displayed full screen. If the video is in 4:3, the TV must add black borders on the sides of the image. It is also generally possible to configure the TV to display the 4:3 signal full screen, but the image is stretched horizontally, and his original aspect ratio is not maintained. It's absurd, and should be avoided.

On the DVD, the video can be recorded in 4:3 or 16:9 anamorphic.

For 4:3, there is a parameter to tell the player that the 4:3 image is already letterboxed, and has therefore black horizontal borders hardcoded in the image. (It's a false 16:9 image, non-anamorphic.) In this case, the player should send the unmodified 4:3 image to the TV, but may also send a signal telling that the image is letterboxed. So, a 16:9 TV should be able to automatically zoom in the image to display it full screen.

If the video is in 16:9 anamorphic on the DVD, there are two additional parameters used only for 4:3 TV: letterbox and pan & scan. At least one of these parameters must be selected. If the letterbox option is selected alone, the player must send the signal to the 4:3 TV as letterboxed (ie with black horizontal borders.) If the pan & scan option is selected alone, the player must send a pan & scanned image to the 4:3 TV. If both parameters are selected, then the player decides which mode to use. This is why it is (generally) possible to select the preferred display mode for your 4:3 TV. (See above).

You can change the 4:3 and 16:9 modes and parameters with PgcEdit's Domain Streams Attributes function.
Unless there is an authoring error somewhere, you should not change the 4:3/16:9 selection, or your image will be stretched.

But you can set the "Source Picture Letterboxed" flag (for 4:3 with horizontal black borders) if it is not already set. But take care: if the subtitles are placed partially or totally in the bottom black border, you will not see them anymore!

You may also want to change the letterbox and pan & scan options for 16:9 video. Again, take care with the subtitles. Also, never change these flags on a menu domain if there are menu buttons, because the buttons are specifically designed to be placed at the right place for a specific mode. If you change the display mode, the buttons highlights will not be at the right location anymore. (This is true also for the title domain if the title has BOVs - Buttons Over Video!)

Also, note that the domain streams attributes are global to the whole domain. So, if there are several titles in the same domain, it is not possible to change the display mode of one title w/o affecting the other titles of the domain as well. (Same for the menus, of course, but as I said, it's generally not a good idea to change the display mode of a menu domain.)

In short, since you have a 16:9 TV, you should:
- Configure your player for 16:9.
- Configure your TV to display 4:3 as true 4:3, and avoid the false fullscreen modes.
- In some cases, you may want to change the domain attributes display options of some titles of a DVD, but take care, and verify if you can still see the subpics. Always burn a RW to test with your standalone.

Hope it helps.

[blutach]

Thanks for very cmprehensive explanation r0lZ. I hope drf can now understand why black borders on the left and right appear.

Regards

[drfsupercenter]

Well that explains things a bit.

It is also generally possible to configure the TV to display the 4:3 signal full screen, but the image is stretched horizontally, and his original aspect ratio is not maintained. It's absurd, and should be avoided.

Which is what my player does. There is no way at all to make it automatically add black bars to the side - I asked customer support about this. I can do it manually but it just gets annoying having to do that every time I change titles on the DVD (especially if there are short videos on it).

[blutach]

This is a pain for me sometimes too drf. I have a projector and it can be set to 4:3 or 16:9. So what comes out of the DVD is one or the other, depending on the title (the extras are usually 4:3 and the flick is usually 16:9). I just have to set it back and forth - PITA but fact of life.

Regards

[nwg]

The stretching thing that r0lZ mentioned is called smart mode on Sony TV's. It stretches the picture horizontally and makes the picture too wide. People will look short and out of proportion.

The pan and scan ability on a DVD is actually very rare. I have only seen it on one DVD. All DVD players should be able to add black bars for 4:3 material when set to 16:9 (standalone and portable).

What DVD player is it?

[nwg]

This is a pain for me sometimes too drf. I have a projector and it can be set to 4:3 or 16:9. So what comes out of the DVD is one or the other, depending on the title (the extras are usually 4:3 and the flick is usually 16:9). I just have to set it back and forth - PITA but fact of life.

Regards

I have the same with my projector. I don't like the picture out of prorpotion so I ignore just mode (Panasonic AE100) which is the same as smart mode on the Sony.

With my TV. It automatically switches from 4:3 to 16:9 due to switching ability using RGB scart.