Using IfoEdit: Setting the 16:9 (16x9) Flag

[joybreaker]

r0lZ,

To summarize: would you say it is safe to change the AR of the Video Manager Menu in my project, as the DVD Title menu has been set to the main menu, which is a 16:9 menu with a 16:9 video background? Even though Encore has not flagged it as 16:9 (in the VIDEO_TS.IFO Video Manager Menu attribute viewed in IFOEdit) for some reason , and if it doesn't mess anything up, at least as the DVD works the way it should in my DVD Player still after the change? Also in other words, would you be able to see it somewhere afterwards if the AR change is not legal or messing something up?

[r0lZ]

I really don't know without seeing your DVD. If you want more info, load it in PgcEdit, and go to Info -> PGC Params and Cells Tables, and copy the output here. (If it is too long, upload the text file somewhere and post the link here.)
Or just post a screenshot of the left pane of the PgcEdit main window.

[joybreaker]

I really don't know without seeing your DVD. If you want more info, load it in PgcEdit, and go to Info -> PGC Params and Cells Tables, and copy the output here. (If it is too long, upload the text file somewhere and post the link here.)
Or just post a screenshot of the left pane of the PgcEdit main window.

Thanks a lot. I really appreciate this a lot.
The both infos are here as attachment. Would do you say?
This is the unchanged info, so I've not yet changed the AR in this example, I hope this is enough or do you need this info after the change?

[r0lZ]

No, it's (probably) enough. But I have to wait till a moderator approves your attachments. If I forgot to reply, please post a new message!

[joybreaker]

Ok the files are up.

[r0lZ]

OK, as you can see in the screenshot, all menus with buttons are in VTSM 1. Therefore, you cannot change the AR of that domain. The subpics seems to have been made for a 16:9 menu (displayed in letterboxed format on a 4:3 TV.) Therefore, the domain stream attributes flag should be 16:9 letterboxed. If it's not the case, change the flags with PgcEdit, but test carefully on a standalone with a RW. You should test in all modes supported by your TV: change the settings of yous DVD player to 4:3 (supported by all TVs), and if you have a 16:9 TV, try also the 16:9 modes, letterboxed and pan&scan. Plays the menu in all cases, and watch the highlights.

In the VMGM, all PGCs have a dummy tiny black cell, that is probably never really played. Since that domain has video contents but no buttons, you can safely set the 16:9 flag, but if the cells are never played, you will never notice the difference.

[joybreaker]

Seems to be that the domain stream attributes of the VTSM1 are all 16:9 letterboxed. So, as I change VMGM attributes to 16:9 letterbox with IFOEdit (PGCEdit doesn't seem to let me change the domain stream attributes when I view the VMGM domain streams after I've opened by double clicking the VMGM in the left pannel - or can they be edited from somewhere else?), but anyhow IFOedit seems to change this.

Ok, so that's now changed to 16:9 letterbox, is there anywhere left anything that could be messing the DVD MENU aspect ratio to something else than the 16:9 letterbox as it's defined now?

[r0lZ]

BTW, to change the AR of a domain with PgcEdit, just right-click on any PGC of that domain, and select "Domain Stream Attributes". The flags will be modified in the IFO of the current VTS and in VIDEO_TS.IFO, in one operation. (You have to edit both files with IfoEdit.)

Normally, the information in the IFOs have precedence, so if they are good, that should be sufficient. But remember that you have to modify them in TWO places with IfoEdit. Or use PgcEdit, as explained above.

You might also want to fix the AR in the VOB files with DVDPatcher, but normally that's not necessary.

[joybreaker]

r0lZ, thank you so much.
Changing this VMGM AR flag fixed a problem I had with one TV DVD set not able to adjust the menus to 16:9. Changing this flag of the VMGM fixed this. So it looks like some DVDs / TVs take the VMGM in to account when deciding which display mode it will use, most do not. Anyhow, it seems this is the way it should be in the VMGM the flag (matching the menus' AR). At least for some systems it seems to define the display mode for each menu (so I guess when a menu loads it first asks VMGM which mode to use?), and this is the way it is at least in all the other commercial DVDs I've checked out so far.

[NathanC]

Many thanks for this fantastic walkthrough. I followed your instructions and it worked perfectly. I just have a small, perhaps unrelated, question. What is the best software to use to burn the material to your computer before you can begin this process? I used DVDFab on a disc containing two recorded episodes but only the second one burned successfully. What could I be doing wrong?

[r0lZ]

Welcome to the forum, NathanC!

What do you mean exactly by "burn the material to your computer"?

If you have already copied (and possibly modified) the DVD files on your hard disc, I strongly suggest you use ImgBurn to burn a DVD+R.

If you want to copy the files of the original DVD to your hard disc, you have to use a decrypter/ripper program, but it is forbidden to help users on that subject on this forum. Sorry.

It is also possible to copy the original DVD directly to a DVD+R if you have two drives, but I don't recommend doing that, as the quality of the burn is usually bad, and you cannot verify and modify the DVD before burning it.

Anyway, burning a DVD is not related to the aspect ratio problem that is the subject of this thread.

[inanimateman]

a related 16:9 query?!

Hi r0lZ, ladies, gentlemen... apologies for resurecting a 16:9 question... I posted this recently in the AVID off topic forum (I put it there because DVDit came bundled with AVID media composer), but haven't had any success with any advice so far and I wondered if you might be able to help...

"I'm trying to create a 16:9 DVD with a fairly simple static menu ... several lines of text with a button next to each line, so you can jump to the relevent chapter. I'm using the subpicture to highlight the button selections and activations. The DVD menu looks 16:9 in most of the DVD players i've tried so far (some i've had to set manually to display the correct aspect ratio). I've tried the DVD with various methods of playback and have noticed that in software players such as PowerDVD windows media etc. the menu is displayed 4:3.... so text and buttons are stretched long and thin (however, all of the sub picture highlights line up ok, still stretched, and the video content plays 16:9 as intended when a button selection is made).

In an attempt to make the 'Menu' and associated video content appear 16:9, I've used IFOedit to change the aspect ratio of the Video Manager attributes in the IFO file on the DVD to 16:9 / pan-scan & letterboxed, so now when I play the DVD in software players and dvd players with widescreen TV's attached, both Menu and video all appear 16:9... here's the BUT...
...i thought I'd try it on my 4:3 television to see if the letterbox / pan scan displayed correctly - the background image was fine... but the sub picture highlights were in the wrong place, they looked like they were still positioned for 4:3.

There doesn't appear to be a way of forcing the sub picture to 16:9, and I've found an article on the web that mentioned if the Main DVD menu (VMGM?) does not have video content it needs to be 4:3 to be standard compliant anyway? [I understand why this is now after reading r0lZ's post!]

I'm jumping through the hoops because the DVD is likely to be duplicated many times and I was trying to cover as many bases for the variety of viewing options available.

The project was shot 16:9 with pixel size of 720x576, and I'm using one of the backgrounds used in the video (exported as a TIFF into PS CS) as the basis for the menu. I've used the stretch option in DVDit PRO 6 so that when played back on a 16:9 monitor it looks correct, with all the text and buttons being title safe.

Any thoughts? I'm currently planning to go back to the original version (before I messed about with the IFO file on the DVD, but without solving the problem)... if there is recognised way of doing what I'm trying to achieve, it'd be great to find out.

I'm thinking - those who release commercial DVD titles (or those who just understand DVD authoring better than i do) must have this one covered ???

Thanks in advance"



After reading the other posts in this thread, I've realised the AR flag I've changed was not the right thing to do as the subpicture is now displayed incorrectly in some cases...


Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[r0lZ]

After reading the other posts in this thread, I've realised the AR flag I've changed was not the right thing to do as the subpicture is now displayed incorrectly in some cases...

Right, that might be the problem.

A 16:9 menu must have the letterboxed or pan&scan flag set, or both.

On a 16:9 TV, the video will be shown fullscreen anyway, and the flag is ignored.

On a 4:3 TV, if you have set only one flag, that display mode will be forced. So, in your case, I guess you want to set the letterbox flag, and leave the pan&scan flag clear, to display the menu in 16:9 with horizontal black borders. When both flags are set, the player should use the preferred mode the user has configured via its setup menu.

You must also know that if the menu is encoded in 4:3, only the standard 4:3 mode is used, and the letterbox and pan&scan flags are ignored. The 16:9 TVs should display the 4:3 menu in 4:3, with vertical black borders. That's the easier case, as only one mode must be "programmed".

But if the menu is 16:9, you have to define several "groups" for the menu buttons. One gorup for the 16:9 TV, and one group for the 4:3 TV in letterbox mode AND/OR one group for the 4:3 TV in pan&scan mode. So, there must be 3 groups if both flags are set. Otherwise, a group must be defined for the right mode. That means that a 16:9 menu must have 2 or 3 groups.

Furthermore, each group must have its own subpic stream. So, if you set the letterbox flag only, you must have a subpic for the 16:9 mode, and one subpic for the 4:3 letterboxed mode.

This is necessary because the player must stretch the image according to the TV type and, if it is a 4:3 TV, to the current lb or p&s mode. But the subpic streams are NEVER stretched by the player. They are simply displayed as they are over the stretched video. Similarly, the X and Y positions of the rectangle enclosing the buttons are used unmodified, so the values must be different in each group, to cover the right oprtion of the stretched image.

It is not easy to change the display mode after having generated the menu, as you have to change the content of the subpic stream. Although you can theoretically do it with DVDSubEdit, I think is is much more simple to recreate the menu from scratch. Just be sure to use an authoring program that supports the 16:9 menus, and to select the right display mode as soon as possible.

[inanimateman]

3rd time lucky (seemed to have lost the last couple of attempts to reply)

Hi r0IZ, thanks for getting back so quickly....

I've read through your reply several times to get my head around it, thank you for such an amazing detailed response.

But if the menu is 16:9, you have to define several "groups" for the menu buttons. One gorup for the 16:9 TV, and one group for the 4:3 TV in letterbox mode AND/OR one group for the 4:3 TV in pan&scan mode. So, there must be 3 groups if both flags are set. Otherwise, a group must be defined for the right mode. That means that a 16:9 menu must have 2 or 3 groups.

I'm bit stuck with where I need to make the actual changes to achieve my objective, if I explain how I got to where I am with the menu at present it might help..

The graphic for the menu was produced in Photoshop CS using the PAL D1/DV Widescreen square pixel preset (pixel dimensions are 1024x768). The subpicture was just a straight copy of the buttons from the graphic, but changed to a solid red then layer merged with a white background. This Subpicture layer then sits above the flattened graphic image with the original buttons, so top layer (subpicture) buttons line up bob on with the graphic layer buttons on the layer beneath.

In DVDit, I dragged appropriately sized marquees around each button area and text beside it, then linked them to the appropriate chapter with the 'use subpicture' option selected.

Is the 'groups' bit you mentioned this whole process, so have a number of menu's one that plays 4:3 displaying correctly and one that plays 16:9
again displaying correctly... do I need to create the graphics with sub picture layers that line up for both these cases and then somehow give the viewer the option to select the right viewing option before getting any further into the DVD?

DVDit is perhaps part of the problem and my mis-understanding being the rest of it!

[r0lZ]

Unfortunately, I don't know DVDit, so I can't explain how to use it.

What I have explained above is the theory of the DVD-Video specs. A good authoring program should simplify the procedure, and for example, generate the 2 or 3 groups and subpics automatically from the given material. I'm not sure how DVDit works exactly, but anyway, the final size of the background image or video is always 720x576 (or 704x576), and never 1024x768. So, I suppose it resizes the image back to the right format. If it can do that, it should also adapt the position and size of the button highlights, and create the right groups. So, I guess you should try to find where you can specify that you want to use the letterbox mode only, and be sure to set that setting correctly before generating the DVD. For example, with DVD-Lab Pro, that setting is in the Project Properties. I can't do much more for you, but if you cannot find how to change that setting, I suggest you post that question in a forum specific to DVDit.