WinDVD DVD-audio pack & RME soundcards

[Hippoo]

Hi,

Does someone know if the optional WinDVD DVD-audio pack in WinDVD 5 really allows for playback of high resolution (24/96) DVD-audio discs via a computer DVD-ROM player and the digital outputs of RME soundcards (in my case Hammerfall DSP Multiface) ?

Or is MLP decoded playback of 24/96 multichannel 5.1 sound on computers only possible in combination with Creative Audigy hardware ?

Hippo

[Crash Override]

The WinDVD DVD-Audio pack only allows true DVD-Audio 24/96 (or 24/192) playback with the Audigy series cards. As part of the agreement for the development of the DVD Audio driver, the software shuts down all digital output during playback of DVD-Audio.

[Hippoo]

Here is an update of my previous message regarding the DVD-audio capabilities of the DVD-audio pack in WinDVD.
Due to the lack of a demo version of the DVD-audio pack I had to resort to a cracked version of WinDVD Platinum 5.3 to try out audio playback of my DVD-audio discs on the computer before actually buying the separate DVD-audio pack.

Here my test impressions:

1. First conclusion is that the MLP decoding step of DVD-audio discs is done by the WinDVD software itself and not by Creative Audigy hardware. The decoding process displays a relative low CPU usage (6 channels 24 bit & 48 kHz at ca. 15% CPU on a P4 2.8 GHz).

2. For own-made non-protected DVD-audio discs (created with the Discwelder software) the digital outputs of all six channel audio channels are, contrary to common believe, NOT muted. All channels are available as six independent audio signals over the ADAT outputs of my all-digital RME HSDP Digiface card.

3. Commercially pressed, copyright protected, DVD-audio discs switch over to the stereo downmix or stereotrack on the digital output in WinDVD. No discrete multichannel outputs here due to copy restrictions on the disc itself.

4. Unfortunately the DVD-audio driver of WinDVD appears to limit the audio output resolution to 16 bit & 48 kHz, regardless of input data. 24 bit audio becomes truncated to 16 bit. It is not clear if the lower bit resolution originates from software protection or simply from poor audio driver routines written to standard DVD-video specifications.

5. The DVD-audio software part of WinDVD is very buggy to use. It is possible to navigate through the DVD-audio menus, but sometimes with a very sluggish response and leading to a high crash percentage. Main problem here is that audio output sometimes get stuck or becomes interrupted, e.g. for commercial DVD-A titles without copyright protection.

6. Track transitions of DVD-audio discs are NOT gapless during WinDVD playback. A small gap is introduced by moving sequentially from the end of a track to the next one. Especially annoying when listening to live DVD-audio recordings.

7. Most disappointing remark: the sound quality of the WinDVD DVD-audio pack really sucks. Playback via the WinDVD software player sounds very two-dimensional, grainy and lifeless. Something really goes wrong here. The playback chain used here is surround set of Dynaudio Air6 monitors, digitally connected up to the RME Digiface and a RME ADI-8 DD ADAT-AES converter. No compromises in that department I can say.

The conclusion is: Don't ever try to compare the sound of the WinDVD DVD-audio player to a good stand-alone DVD-audio player or from the original multichannel mixes , it turns out that there is no match.

The reason for the poor sound quality of WinDVD must be that the WinDVD software ruthlessly throws away the lowest 8 bits with no added dither. Also it seems that WinDVD still does a lot of DSP processing on the output despite having choosing the waveout devices of the digital RME Digiface soundcard. E.g. moving the volume slider in WinDVD supposedly must not have any influence in the overal output volume in this configuration, however movement of the slider up and down still audibly alters the sound, but without the volume changes. Moreover, the timing precision (or absence of jitter) of digital software player is not expected to be of a very high standard on a personal computer. So, all these factors may explain the poor sound quality when compared to dedicated DVD-audio players and/or 24/96 DAW workstations.

Things may work better for the DVD-audio pack in combination with Creative Audigy software, which supposedly support real high-resolution samplerates up to 192 kHz. But don't bet on that to be true.

Conclusion:
The DVD-audio options of WinDVD Platinum are adequate to quickly browse DVD-audio discs on computers. Please do not buy the package to expect the ultimate DVD-audio sound experience. A simple separate "DVD-audio compatible" DVD player results in a much more enjoyable sound.

Hopefully this report helps a lot of people what to and what not to expect from the WinDVD DVD-audio solution.

[Crash Override]

The DVD-Audio pack documentation itself states that for true DVD Audio playback you NEED the Audigy card. The Audigy card, in fact does decode the MLP in hardware, and the sound is stunning. It does in fact support up to 192kHz stereo, and there is a HUGE difference between 16-bit and 24-bit sound when running through the Audigy.

With the Audigy card installed, there is a graphic displayed by the driver that appears briefly in the bottom right corner of the screen when the card goes into various modes. Sometimes it says "DVD Audio", sometimes it says "Dolby Digital Bitstream Out", etc.

My Audigy 2 ZS Platinum Pro card is connected through the external analog inputs of a Denon AVR-5700 receiver, and my speakers are Definitive Technology BP2000tl, BPX and CLR2000. The depth from the DVD Audio tracks versus a similar 5.1 or DTS track is stunning.

As far as being buggy, I have to agree with that assessment. When switching between audio "Groups" -- say between stereo and surround MLP tracks, the sound cuts out, only to come back again if you restart WinDVD. This seems to be some issue with not resetting the DVD Audio driver for the Audigy card. As far as navigating, I have noticed some weirdness on several discs, mainly associated with disappearing top menus when navigating backwards.

The only annoying thing about the Audigy card is that it does not support 44.1 kHz native S/PDIF out -- only 48kHz or 96kHz. This makes it unsuitable for playing back DTS CD's.... what happens is that the DTS signal is sent out at 48kHz, and Sheryl Crow sounds like she's on helium.

However, 96kHz sounds great, even on the older Classic Records DAD discs -- my Denon picks up the 96kHz output just fine and it sounds just as good as on my stand-alone DVD player.

[scottydog90]

sorry i'm slow to this thread but i've just joined...enjoyed reading the input as i'm evaluating windvd5 platinum at present purely for the dvd audio capabilities (i have a audigy2 card)...
but i have an annoying problem....when playing a dvda disc the playback stops after every track and sits waiting for me to press next track!!!!!!
have tried the dvda player that came with audigy2 card and plays all tracks but this has no visual capabilities like win dvd....
any ideas
scottydog

[Crash Override]

Hmm -- Haven't noticed any behavior like that in WinDVD5. Are you specifically telling it to play all tracks, or are you just picking the first one to play? That's odd.

I have to give an addendum to my previous complaint about having to restart WinDVD5 when switching audio tracks -- you don't actually have to restart it, just jump to the next track (and then back again if you want to listen to the track you were on when you did the switch). Apparently the Audigy2 driver gets confused when you switch in the middle of a track. This is probably a bug on the part of WinDVD5, not resetting the driver properly, as I suggested before....

Which DVD-Audio disc(s) are you using that experience this problem? I've got 10+ discs at this point and they all play through fine.

[scottydog90]

thanx for rplying crash.....my dvds is steely dan everything must go.....there seems to be little in the way of audio settings so pardon my ignorance but how do you tell it to play all tracks or one track????
scottydog90

[Crash Override]

Hey man --

There aren't any settings in WinDVD5 to play all or only a single track -- but I've noticed that on some DVD Audio discs it depends on how you start the disc, whether you get a single song or all -- for example sometimes there's a "Play All" selection on the menu, or maybe you just pick the first song from a playlist. And if you do that, sometimes it plays all the songs, and sometimes it only plays the one you picked, depending upon how the disc is authored. Does that make any sense?

Also, you might try another DVD Audio title (disc) and see if you experience the same behavior.