DV to AVI or MPEG2 - opinion wanted!

[Skwanderer]

Hi - I'd really appreciate any opinions on the best format to convert DV video to... AVI (DivX) or MPEG2.

I've recently purchased a DV camcorder (PAL format - I currently live in Europe) and a DVD burner (NEC1300a).

As with most newbies, I'm pretty trigger happy at the moment - and recording lots of DV footage which is a lot of raw data that needs to be compressed

The problem is, I'm not sure of the best way to go!! AVI (DivX) encoded files, MPEG2 encoded files, or even authoring straight to DVD!! Heck, I don't even know what resolution I should aim for to get the best quality vs. file size.

My only consideration is that I will be returning to Canada (NTSC) next year, so I would want to be able to watch my videos there (i.e. if I author DVD's at 720x576 - I suppose I would not be able to watch them on an ordinary DVD player in Canada? Or?).

If I DivX encode the DV files, I suppose I could always watch the video on both computer and TV through the grafix card tv-out. But is it then better to reduce the resolution, and go for a higher bitrate?

How about straight MPEG2 files (using tempgenc for example) - would I preserve more quality this way, and would the mpeg2's be playable on some DVD players?


I know this all sounds like a bit of "6 of one, half dozen of the other" I don't have a problem with 60-90m per DVD disc, as I'd like to maintain as much of the quality as possible. Most important is that my videos can be watched on both PAL & NTSC tv's - whether through a computer or a DVD player.

I'm a little confused (newbie at this) so I'd appreciate any "conventional wisdoms" that ppl may have on this matter!

Thanks in advance

[rsquirell]

You should read your manual for your DVD Players (including the one on your PC.) You can change regions on most from different varieties of PAL to NTSC....but most players only allow this 5 times...then it locks. If you want to play DVD's on different format players it might be best to make a PAL copy and a NTSC copy DVD disc. I use ULead Video Studio 7 for DV conversion. Feed from firewire in DV resolution (720X480 NTSC) and VS7 converts it to MPEG2 on the fly...then "smart render" without compressing much and have it build the DVD VIDEO_TS files ( it'll burn a DVD, too...but at this point I usually take the VIDEO_TS files to DVDShrink and compress them as much as 50% without much loss of quality...that way you can get 4+ hours of video on one disc.)

[Skwanderer]

Thanks rsquirell!

Yes, I've come to the same conclusion that burning my DV files to DVD format is probably the most common-sense "safe" approach. There are firmware and software "fixes" out there that solve the "region" limitations of most DVD players - especially popular in Europe where many consumers prefer the lower cost and xtra features of American release DVD's.

So this is a great solution, and it leads to another more relevent question:


----> HOW does the region setting on a DVD work??

If I purchase a "commercial relase" DVD from N.America, I can quite happily play this DVD on a "PAL format" DVD player/tv in Europe (with the region change enabled)...

But surely a Region 1 (NTSC) DVD is authored at 720x480 (at 4:3)??

...However the output of this same DVD is compatible (with region changed) on a PAL system which is 720x576 (at 4:3).

So does this mean that a "region free" DVD player in N.America would be able to play a PAL-authored DVD?

[shiny#3]

propably....yes.....
in addition to that I may remark that the formats
pal and ntsc are not neccesarily bound to the region
....there are indeed region 2 ntsc dvds for example....
though in the region 2 area pal is the most used system.

modern dvd players do playback pal and ntsc movies...
and when you author your dvd yourself, I don´t think
that you are going to enhance a regional code ,do you?

by the way Pal dvds have almost invariably a resolution
of 720x576 no matter if they are fullscreen widescreen
or 4:3.....

[rsquirell]

hmmmm....if shiney's right, and PAL and NTSC DVDs play on modern DVD players regardless of what region is selected perhaps we Americans should do our DVDs at the higher PAL resolution. But I've seen a lot of people complaining about their playback is in black and white, and usually the cause can be traced back to mixing a PAL and NTSC setting somewhere in the capture/render/DVD prep process...

[Skwanderer]

I guess the point is, simply, that we can play American versions of DVD titles on our region-free DVD players in Europe.

However, I've also been told that PAL tv's will happily accept an NTSC signal, and not the other way around - NTSC tv's are not fond of PAL input signals ...perhaps this explains the "black/white" problems?


Nevertheless, what I'm finding difficult to understand is how these <b>retail DVD's</B> are universally compatible when the region lock is disabled? In other words, the resolution of the DVD's (the difference of vertical lines) does not actually seem to make a difference? Or?

If this statement were to be completely correct, there would not need to be half-a-dozen NTSC<->PAL conversion tools out there!

I'm confused

[GeneralLeoFF]

Most DVD players dont care about the old PAL and NTSC rules anymore. Generaly today the DVD player does all the work of seinding out the correct video signal to the TV and the DVD it is playing dosnt realy mater. 99.9% of DVD players these days will play any disc you toss at it as long as the regions match.

Playing a PAL 576 DVD on an NTC machine would simpley ignore the extra lines and crop them off and play the center 480 lines of the sourse. The extra lines are normaly going to be nothing but letterboxing anyway so you dont lose a single bit of image.

many DVDs these days are endcoded as progressive scan and at a framerate of rougly 24 FPS. This is neather PAL nor NTSC and the player has to adapt this signal to properly output on a PAL or NTSC television.

Your DVD will not have any region protections of any kind. No macrovision, no nothing... If you burn it at higher reselution PAL it is likley to work perficly fine on any DVD player you stick it in.

[Skwanderer]

hmmmm

I hope you are right, but based on my latest reading http://dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#1.19 it would seem that this is not entirely sure...

In fact, my interpretation is that I would be better off burning my PAL format DV to NTSC DVD format in order to attain the greatest compatibility?

Or am I misunderstanding it?

[GeneralLeoFF]

"Most NTSC players can't play PAL discs. A very small number of NTSC players (such as Apex and SMC) can convert PAL to NTSC"

I havent personaly ran into an NTSC player that isnt able to convert the PAL signal to NTSC. My PlayStation 2 isa able to play PAL SVCD but I havent been able to play a PAL DVD (becose it is region locked and I dont care enough to mod it and find out if it can play PAL DVD or not.

However my DVD player I use this stuff on is infact an APEX. An $80 low end DVD player but as it says above. APEX players can convert PAL to NTSC on the fly (guess it isnt so low end after all).

Perhaps i'm wrong and perhaps i'm right. After reading that I dont know what you should do.

[Skwanderer]

LOL - well it would seem to me that my best solution would simply be to buy an Apex DVD player when I get to Canada - and problem solved

It would also save me the hassle of trying to author my DVD's into NTSC format!

But at the risk of sounding ignorant, what exactly is an Apex DVD player - I take it that it's not a brand name?!

$80 ...I guess that's US? ...so it would be about $5000 CDN (hehe) ...no, say $120 CDN - decent price too

[GeneralLeoFF]

Yes APEX is a brand name. There most commony found in Wall-Marts all over the states. Mine was $80 about a year and a half ago. it's probly $40 - $50 by now and for a better model.

See this one here is half the price of mine but with the same specs. I have seen APEX players that are capable of progressive scan and DTS audio and there still below the $100 mark.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000658CG/002-8373427-0922435?v=glance

Modifications for making APEX players region free are extreamly common as well as easy to install.

Like anyting low cost though you wont get the best performance. artifacts while not sever are common to apex players.

Yes it's in USD

[Skwanderer]

Cheers GeneralLeoFF

That's a great tip and very useful to know. Worst comes to worst I guess I could always pick myself up a cheapo model of an Apex in order to play my PAL authored DVD's

I really appreciate you help!

[shiny#3]

In March 2003 I purchased the denver dvd-176.

this dvdplayer can be set to either out put a pal signal
or a ntsc signal it can also be set to display (output)
a ntsc dvd as pal.....no outof sync probs occurred so far
back then this dvd player was sold for 89$ .
since the chipset and firmware of this player is quite
common you may find a dvdplayer that is also capable
to do so......

another good solution is provided by SCOTT
these players are also capable to do so
(model 847 and higher)

I was able to test it because I assisted a friend of mine,
a US soldier, located in Germany who wanted a very
cheap player that can playback the dvds he rents at
his army base store as well as the dvds you rent
in germany.......

both players are set to regionfree by default and
can be reprogrammed by entering a code with the remote control!!!!

good luck!

[GeneralLeoFF]

http://www.nerd-out.com/darrenk/1100W/1100W.htm

as of today my "cheap" APEX is region free and RDE free and well as macrovision free

Finly got bored enough to go figure out how to mod my model. Never had a PAL DVD to bother with. Just SVCD and thouse play without moding.

Be nice to be macrovision free though. Damn macrovision....