Capturing video - give me the real story

[troyy01]

Ok, I am no rookie at technology nor audio/video equipment. Bringing the two together, I understand the basics. However, it seems that I am missing some things that I hope someone can clear up. Here is a list:

1. After fighting for weeks with a Dazzle DCS-200 device, I returned it and purchased a Sony DCR-TRV350 Digital8 camcorder than can play back my Hi8XR video tapes. Currently, I'm trying to play back the Hi8 tapes and capture the video using just about anything, but right now I'm using Adobe Premier 6.0. The camcorder has both ports, firewire and USB2.0. Is there any difference in using the two when doing this type of conversion or actually capturing full Digital8 recordings? The unit only came with the USB cable, so I haven't picked up a firewire cable to try, yet. I would like to know the best way to capture both Digital8 and Hi8 video using the camcorder.

2. It appears that the camcorder only outputs to AVI files, which are extremely large. 5-10 minutes was about 2GB. Is there any way to capture this directly to MPEG?

3. The quality is horrendous compared to the tape. I was hoping to get this converted to DVD with minimal quality loss. Is this quality loss normal? I do not want broadcast or VHS quality--I would like to maintain as close as possible the Hi8 quality of the original recording. I have tried using TMPGEnc and it smooths/blurs the image a little to help remove the graininess, but the quality simply sucks compared to the original played back from the camcorder.

4. What are all the settings in the codecs for? I understand the basics, fps, bit-rate, etc, but is there a recommended codec for most things that would eventually end up on DVD? If I use the firewire port, does this remove all the crap settings that I have to screw with in the codecs? If so, can I use the firewire when capturing the old Hi8 video?

It just seems that I have done tons and tons of research and there is too much information out there that really does not specifically say, "Do this, this, and this and your videos will look good." I know it will take quite some time to get the hang of tweaking it, but I just don't see why it should be so hard from the outset to get half-way decent video. Is this crap just not mature enough to work good or what?

I should probably mention that my PC is a P4 3.0GHz 8MHz FSB, 1GB RAM, 73GB 10k rpm SCSI hard drive. Are there settings that I should enable or disable on my system, such as Hyper-Threading or Video Hardware Accelleration?

[rsquirell]

When Pinnacle purchased Dazzle back in August it is my understanding they dropped support of the DCS 200. The real reason they wanted the company was to get their hands on the DVC-150...perhaps the best external hardware MPEG2 capture device on the market. For all the hype...a "Digital" Hi8 is not a DV camera...it's VHS...and as such, you must use a capture device to convert the VHS to digital ( either a high-end internal card or an external device.) You can take your new Sony back and get a miniDV...or go to Pinnacle and get a DVC-150.

[troyy01]

Originally posted by rsquirell
When Pinnacle purchased Dazzle back in August it is my understanding they dropped support of the DCS 200. The real reason they wanted the company was to get their hands on the DVC-150...perhaps the best external hardware MPEG2 capture device on the market. For all the hype...a "Digital" Hi8 is not a DV camera...it's VHS...and as such, you must use a capture device to convert the VHS to digital ( either a high-end internal card or an external device.) You can take your new Sony back and get a miniDV...or go to Pinnacle and get a DVC-150.

Please do not provide advice if you do not know what you are talking about. Thankfully, I pursued this on my own today before I read your post. Pinnacle did drop the support for the DCS-200, as they should have--it is a POS. 8mm and Hi8XR are NOT VHS. The entire line of 8mm video has a much higher resolution and MUCH better sound quality than VHS (240 lines for VHS, about 450 for Hi8XR and FM quality sound for standard VHS as opposed to Hi-Fi sound for all 8mm's). As far as quality, I wouldn't piss on a VHS if it were on fire. The only thing the two have in common is that they are both analog technology. You are also incorrect on what needed to be done. I tried using the USB2 port to capture the video, but it only did 320x240 at marginal quality. The Sony DCR-TRV350 Digital8 camcorder I have plays back 8mm and Hi8/Hi8XR tapes (only the better models do this). By using firewire (i-Link), I was able to capture the video from my old 8mm/Hi8XR tapes using Adobe Premier at 720x480 and transfer it to DVD with minimal (if any) quality loss. It is a process that uses lots of disk space--less than 2 hours was 25GB, but no big deal since disk space is pennies these days, and it is all likely temporary storage.

For this situation, capturing video with a PC peripheral is the WRONG way to do it. None of those devices can capture the quality that was on the original tapes. I spent three months working on all the crap that everyone on this forum and other forums talk about and it was all a waste of time. I will be posting an article in the thread that contains the full info in hopes that it makes someone else's life easier.

[rsquirell]

Not owning a Hi8, I was posting info given by others in the old Dazzle forum who did...and were using the DVC-150 for capture. It was my understanding that only miniDV is DV and can be captured thru the firewire...but if your 8mm tape is DV then I stand corrected...the Hi8 posts I'm thinking of occured six months ago...and things do change. But I DO have an old analog Sharp, still...and it DOES capture 8mm tape...and that tape IS VHS (as were the 8mm tapes of the previous Hi8 posters). But If things have changed, a link to the article would be appreciated. If you can capture as DV you might consider ULead Video Studio7 rather than Pinnacle...it captures DV at DV rez in MPEG2...a considerable size savings.

[troyy01]

I'm not sure why you keep referring to 8mm as VHS. 8mm and VHS are two totally different technologies, just as different as Beta and VHS were. Some people get VHS-C confused with 8mm and they think they can put 8mm in a convertor and play it in a VHS deck like you can VHS-C, but you seem to know enough to not be confusing the two. Funny story--I had customers before get irate when I tell them that there is no convertor for their 8mm to play in their VHS deck--they always insist that their "friend" has one. Anyway, there are basically four different versions of 8mm cams that I know of- original 8mm, Hi8, Hi8XR, and Digital8. Digital8 is DV and uses 8mm tapes, not the really tiny tapes like the miniDV cams. While I do not have a link to an article at the moment, I am stating this as fact because I sold camcorders for several years before moving into technology work, and as I mentioned in the new thread I started tonight to clarify things, A/V equipment is still a hobby of mine.

The thing I hate is that consumers are paying out the butt for these capture devices that suck when it comes to quality and they don't need them. With what I'm doing, the video loses minimal (if any) quality and doesn't even have to be run through TMPGEnc.

I posted a thorough thread tonight on this topic here:

http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30624

[MLedbetter]

I agree with TROYY01 .. I had similar experiences with Dazzle and Pinnacle crap.

For clarification, the Sony TRV350 Digital8 camera is equipped with analog-to-digital capabilities, so essentially the Hi8 tapes are being converted to digital format by the camera during the computer download process.

I decided to buy the Sony TRV22 (mini DV) for the same reasons (convert analog 8mm and Hi8 tapes to digital), but the TRV350 would've worked for me - I went for the TRV22 because of its reduced size.

[Quality's Proof]

1. "....any difference between firewire and USB 2.0..."?

Firewire communication to and from is always better than USB 2.0 on data transfer (which difital video is), as firewire is faster, etc.(when rig is operating correctly).

This is about all I can help you with on this thread for now.

I agree that VHS video quality is poor @ ~ 200 lines or so. I decided a while ago to only back up the rare vhs tapes and the 400 lines (LD quality) Super VHS ET tapes I have. Yeah I have one of those 400 lines (which is laser disc quality).

My hauppauge has an S-video in connection which "supposedly" is good for 540 lines of resolution (marginal dvd quality). The captured quality is good @ 4 to 8 mb/s. Software is crappy though and Hauppauge didn't tell me (before buying card) that I would "need" tmpeg to do the back-ups.

I've only captured from the S-video out of my v.c.r to the s-video in of the video card. I'm going to (if I get around to doing so) try to capture at a very high bit rate and see what the quality is.

Hauppauge's technicians haven't solved all of the software problems yet, so it may be awhile.