Backup huge DV files to DVD with no re-rendeting

[shulthise]

Hey all,

I have two DV (AVI) files on my hard disk, 13 GB in size each. Unfortunately I captured them as two long video rather than splitting them by clips while capturing.

I wish to back up the videos in DV quality and with no additional rendering. These videos are very dear to me (the birth of my first baby). But after a couple of years of enjoying them and showing them off, I need to remove them from my hard drive for the benefit of other family video processing.

The only backup device I currently have is a DVD writer drive. So if I'm going to use it for the backing up the videos I will need to split the files.

I'm looking for a tool, or a set of not-too-complicated tools that would allow me to

1. Split AVI files to a number of AVI files considering the DV content (i.e. not just plain binary split, but rather an I-Frame to I-Frame split). Preferably by detecting scenes from the DV.

2. The split will require NO R-rendering – not to MPEG2, MPEG4, DivX, and not even to DV.

3. The split files must be at the size of my choice (preferably 4.6GB each for backup on DVD+R media)

4. Each split file must be independently playable (if I back up one file to a DVD media, I would like to play it directly from the backup)

5. The tool must also allow me to re-join the video files later with no additional rendering.

6. Preferably freeware..

I know I'm asking a lot, but do you know of such tool or set of tools?

Also, do you have an alternate suggestion for backup?
(Backup to DV tape is not relevant)

Thank you.

[LT. Columbo]

well i believe that virtualdub/virtualdubmod can do what you want. it's free too. you can join,cut avi's etc. your only going to get about 4.3 GB on a DVD-5 though...

[reboot]

Direct stream processing in virtualdub, using start and end points.
Remember that the finished avi on dvd will not play in any standalone dvd player.
They will have to be re-encoded to mpeg-2 for dvd, or DivX for players that support it.

[shulthise]

I already tried Virtual Dub... it can't open the DV files.
I get an error message:

VirtualDub Error
---------------------------
Couldn't locate decompressor for format 'dvsd' (unknown)

VirtualDub requires a Video for Windows (VFW) compatible codec to decompress video. DirectShow codecs, such as those used by Windows Media Player, are not suitable.

I think it has to do with the fact i use MS stuff to capture the DV from my digital camcord. But I have no clue how to fix this without experimenting on the files - and you already know i hold them dear.

Remember that the finished avi on dvd will not play in any standalone dvd player.
They will have to be re-encoded to mpeg-2 for dvd, or DivX for players that support it.

Yes - i know. I only need it for source backup. I can always play it on my PC as DV, like i used to so far.

[reboot]

You only need the DV codec (free). This should allow virtualdub (and others) to view/edit your DV files.
Panasonic: http://www.videohelp.com/tools?tool=193
Canopus: ftp://www.canopus.com/pub/drivers/misc/dvcodec.exe

Get them both, but only install one at a time. Keep whichever you like best (usually the Panny).

Alternatively, you should be able to open/edit them in Windows Movie maker, and resave them as DV-AVI.

[shulthise]

reboot
Thanks for the links to the codecs. I'll try them when i get back home from work.

One question though: When you say "usually the Panny" i assume you refer to the Panasonic codec. But in other threads i read that the CANOPUS software is typically better than the competition. So why the Panny ?

About using MS Movie Maker:

Alternatively, you should be able to open/edit them in Windows Movie maker, and resave them as DV-AVI.

I have already checked this option. MS Movie Maker 1 and 2 both re-encode the video - even when I save it as DV. I know that DV is a very low compression, but still - i want to keep the original frames. (BTW, if i remember the capture is done at 25mbps while the re-rendering is at 30mbps.)

All this makes me wonder if Virtual-Dub actually saves the original frames or does re-encoding to DV, just like Movie maker does ?..

[reboot]

Canopus software is better. Panasonic's (Panny) DV codec is slightly faster.

As I don't ever use .wmv, nor WMM, I have no idea how it works. It was just a stab in the dark

Vdub, using direct stream, does not re-encode anything. It is a direct stream copy, not a compressed stream re-encode.

[shulthise]

So, i installed the Canopus codec, and Virtual Dub still couldn't open the DV files, resulting in the same error message:

VirtualDub Error
---------------------------
Couldn't locate decompressor for format 'dvsd' (unknown)

VirtualDub requires a Video for Windows (VFW) compatible codec to decompress video. DirectShow codecs, such as those used by Windows Media Player, are not suitable.

Should I have done anything after installing the codec ?.. the install application mentioned nothing..

Anyway, I uninstalled the Canopus codec, and installed the Panasonic codec instead.
This time Virtual Dub DID open the DV files! Hurrah !!! I can use VD for fast editing!!!

I did a quick test, opened a small .AVI file containing DV, set the video processing to “Direct Stream copy”, and “Saved as AVI”.
The result is about the same file size, and it looks like the same quality.

Is this all I have to do ?? Does VD really just copy each and every frame without re-encoding it ??? Does it keep all other video properties, like interlacing, aspect-ratio, etc ????
I just want to make sure!!!

If this is the case then you made me a happy man ! (just for a couple of hours though.. I still have to get back to work tomorrow.. maybe I’ll dream about it.. dono..)

So, Reboot dude !!! you’re The Man , the King , the Kong and all knowing Oracle!!
Man, if you hadn’t cheated on the Movie Maker and WMV thing I would title you "St. Reboot" ...
(Ok.. I know, I know, I'm over the line here.. I'm just too excited. Don't worry - Tomorrow I’ll have something else to bitch about)

Cheers, THANKS!!!

[reboot]

Is this all I have to do ?? Does VD really just copy each and every frame without re-encoding it ??? Does it keep all other video properties, like interlacing, aspect-ratio, etc ????
I just want to make sure!!!

That's why it's called "direct stream copy". It is a complete, unaltered copy of the original.
I use it all the time for downloads that have VBR MP3 audio. One can set video to direct stream, and uncompress the audio to .wav, all in one step, thus retaining video quality of the file, and only getting the audio into a format one can work with.
It's also extremely handy for removing the last 10 minutes of credits, or cropping of the beginning and ending of movie captures, etc.
I did say the Panny codec was better, didn't I?

[shulthise]

Hey again -
I am using Virtual Dub as reboot suggested, and it looks OK.
There are two small issues i would like solve:

1st - the metadata from the original .AVI file is gone.. Virtual Dub plants "JUNK" tags instead, literally! (the tags from the original file are gone and there are a few tags called JUNK that are saved with the new file)
How can i keep the original tags?
Is there a way to keep the entire header of the source .AVI file in the new file?

2nd - I checked the original file against the new file in GSpot. It seems that almost all the info (other than the metainfo tags) is the same, but the bitrate in the new file is
a little lower. How come ?

Thanks!

[marcie23]

Hi,

I have a similar situation. But I have Nero. Do I choose BackUP, Save data files or ?

Marcie

[shulthise]

hey marcie,

I’ll start by saying that I never used the BackUp option of any burning application.

I use Nero, and I always burn files as data. I prepare the files and layout in advance, before burning the files, even DVD data.
I just feel the data is safer if it's in the form of files and folders that I prepared, rather than a proprietary format/compression of Ahead Nero or other burning app.

[marcie23]

Thanks Shultthise.

These are important so I will make a few copies to be on the safe side.