Old School Recording

**RFBurns** · 13 Oct 2006, 02:02 AM

Howdy!

Most stand alone audio CD recorders have whats called "auto track indexing", which means that the unit will write the track index for each song recorded when it goes from one song to the next. Its a very useful feature for those who dont want to deal with manually indexing the tracks, and it is useful when recording live albums with the crowd noise.

The primary problem is this....the units work on the "vox" technique to know when its time to index the track. This means that the unit listens for "silence" in between the songs, and it is during this silence that the unit tags the recorded track, then when the next song begins, the unit (CD recorder) indexes to the next sequence number, track 1, track 2 etc. So if the source audio, such as a noisy cassette or other tape source, or a scratchy/dirty vinyl record, the unit will hear the noise and think that the song is still going, thus it does not index correctly.

The remidy to this is to sit there and listen and watch the VU meters when the song ends, then manually turn down the recorders input level control to zero so that the recorder does not hear the noises, scratches etc. Then when the next song is about to begin, turn up the level control on the recorder and let it continue. You have to experiment a bit to get the timing down so that the recorder will index correctly. If the recorder has a "record mute" button, use that instead during the silence part of the source music.

I recommend you get some CD-Music RW discs to experiment with, that way you can reduce your new collection of cup coasters and mini-frisbies.

**kuneo** · 13 Oct 2006, 02:18 AM

Thanks RF;

I'm not using a "stand alone" CD recorder so thats not an option.

I'm using a "capture device" that feeds the signal into my computer,and i'm limited by the Nero program that processes that signal.

Looking for someone that would be familar with the "Nero Sound Trax" program,and what process to "enable" the track splitting or chapter insertion at time of original transfer from cassette (or vinyl) to CD.

I'm sure i'm just missing someting simple at this point,but with most software program's...the operation instructions leave a lot to be desired.

Regards
K

**RFBurns** · 13 Oct 2006, 02:55 AM

Ahh ok, sorry bout that, my bad.

Why do you need a "capture device" to feed audio to the PC? You could just feed audio from a stereo reciever's "tape out" or "record out" line and feed that via the sound card's line input and then use any .wav recording program on the PC and record the tracks as individual .wav files, then use Nero or other burning proggie to create the final audio CD. The burning program will index the tracks correctly on the fly as it burns the CD.

However that capture device probably functions just like the stand alone CD recorders, using the "silence" in between tracks to index the individual songs. If that is the case, the noise in between the songs is probably confusing the capture device, thus it thinks its all just one huge long song instead of individual songs.

**vw56german** · 13 Oct 2006, 04:24 AM

I have not done too much with audio throug Nero, but doesnt it have a wave editor? Could you insert your own breaks through that or maybe cut up the large single track into pieces?

**kuneo** · 13 Oct 2006, 06:02 AM

thanks guys;

Can't directly feed analog audio into computer via sound card...as my puter isn't set up that way.Last time I tried that...using the microphone input jack...it only recorded MONO! I need stereo.

The Nero program does have an editor section.and i'm trying to find how to get it to break up into chapter's.......which is why I came to this forum.

I did take your advice,and am using RW's until I get a handle on this thang.

Closest i've gotten so far is...recognition of track's,and they show on the disc program after burning (windows media player),but when I choose different tracks...it reverts back to the opening track only......aaarrrrgghhhhhh!

I'm getting closer by the minute,and hopefully will stumble onto the solution sooner or later.

K

**RFBurns** · 13 Oct 2006, 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by kuneo

thanks guys;

Can't directly feed analog audio into computer via sound card...as my puter isn't set up that way.Last time I tried that...using the microphone input jack...it only recorded MONO! I need stereo.

Ahh, have not seen many PC's equipped with sound cards that do not have a line input...that is any recent ones. I do have one that is circa 1993, it only has output and a mic input, but no line level input.

Originally Posted by kuneo

The Nero program does have an editor section.and i'm trying to find how to get it to break up into chapter's.......which is why I came to this forum.

Using the Nero wav editor, you can load up the file and see the waveform where each song is that will be seperated by the silence in between the songs. That can be used as "cue" points where you would cut out the individual songs, save them as independant wav files. Then you can use Nero to create an audio CD. Since the songs will be their own wav files, each one will have its own track index number, then the player will be able to play whichever one you select.

The capture thing must be tagging the whole thing as one large song even tho it pastes track numbers for each song it captures. Probably some setup or other configuration setting for the capture function.

Originally Posted by kuneo

I did take your advice,and am using RW's until I get a handle on this thang.

Closest i've gotten so far is...recognition of track's,and they show on the disc program after burning (windows media player),but when I choose different tracks...it reverts back to the opening track only......aaarrrrgghhhhhh!

You might try stopping the capture after each song is recorded..then restart the capture device for the next song, and so forth. The capture device might not be able to insert individual track numbers if it is capturing all the time even tho there is silence in between the songs, thus it would just record one large audio file no matter how many songs are on it, and the player sees it as one large audio file as well.

Hope you get it going!

**toomanycats** · 13 Oct 2006, 07:47 AM

I would venture you computer has line in. You probably used a mono 1/8th stereo plug into the line/mic in which is why you had mono.

@RFBurns, You still have a computer from 1993? Starting a museum are we?

**kuneo** · 13 Oct 2006, 08:31 AM

Thanks again for the input,BUT I am using the Editor program AND I am splitting the tracks into seperates..BUT thats where the program is failing....

I have the tracks seperated,and recorded individually,but tagging them to compile a CD with chapters is the problem....IT AINT WORKIN properly.

Hopefully I will get to the bottom (or get drunk) at this point.

I hate these damm programs that really don't explain or make it easy for us to use them...curses.

K

**katzdvd** · 13 Oct 2006, 08:47 AM

Hi kuneo,

I have the tracks seperated,and recorded individually,but tagging them to compile a CD with chapters is the problem....IT AINT WORKIN properly.

If I understand correctly, you have the tracks separated as individual music files at this point. I have used Nero Express, click on "add files", browse to folder where they are stores, & either add one at a time, or select as many as I desired for the compilation that I am working on.

From there, clicking "next", following the burn procedure should produce a playable CD without any issues like you are describing. I have never seen an issue where clicking on succesive tracks results in playing track one over & over; Are you certain that you actually have (9) individual tracks? If you click on them individually on your HD, will they play as separate tracks?

katz

**kuneo** · 14 Oct 2006, 09:34 AM

Can't use Nero Express cause it ain't part of the program that came with the Capture Device

BUT I have good news........first success tonight (fri 13th).

Tried the same process before,and it corrupted the first track,but the rest were clear...This time I used the same configuration,and all the (18) tracks were clear,and accessable.

Had to do with a function called "normalization",but unsure what it does...regardless it worked this time,and hopefully will in the future.

Thanks for all the input......as I said the program is called NeroSound Trax,and it's a wierd deal,but I think i've got a handle on it.

K

**drfsupercenter** · 15 Oct 2006, 12:19 AM

Try using Nero Wave Editor, it works far better.

Just download the trial of Nero and you can use everything.

Or additionaly get Audacity.

Have you tried using line in? Microphone jack is not a good choice for music.

**kuneo** · 15 Oct 2006, 05:45 AM

Just using the program I have for now thanks anyway.
Don't want to get bogged down with multiple program's.

Using the Nero SoundTrax program as stated before,and the Editor program that is attached to Soundtrax.

For now it's working the way I want it (except for massive skipping in my car)...which beget's more issue's

Once you solve one thing it always leads to more......

I dumbed down the burning speed to the slowest,and am using Verb's for blank's...so next step is to check it on my home equipment to see if it's the car player or not.

Regards
K

**katzdvd** · 15 Oct 2006, 07:08 AM

Don't want to get bogged down with multiple program's.

Good idea, it's easier to learn the "ins & outs" of one program at a time

For now it's working the way I want it (except for massive skipping in my car)...

Maybe clean the car player; Verbs & TY media should give you good results, I have good luck with them for mp3's.

regards. katz

**kuneo** · 15 Oct 2006, 12:38 PM

Car player is brand new (so is the car 06 Civic).

Nero Wave Editor is the program along with Soundtrax that i'm using.

Car skipping maybe due to a few factor's.....crappy player in car....checking with non burned CD tomorrow.....burned (mp4?) format may conflict??...first burn's were with the Nero program loaded on my Laptop (maybe crappy burner) I have since reloaded the Nero program to my PC..to see if that makes a difference too.

Hell of a project,but love trying to figure this stuff out (no life).

K

Old School Recording

Old School Recording

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