Burn Quality... What's The Best Test? PIE/PIF or File Readability?

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  • ulTRAX
    Digital Video Enthusiast
    Digital Video Enthusiast
    • Jan 2005
    • 338

    Burn Quality... What's The Best Test? PIE/PIF or File Readability?

    For the past 2 years I've been doing Nero PIE/PIF tests on all my burns. I seem to recall someone saying that if a PIF exceeds 4 then it's unlikely that a good copy can be made from that disk.

    Yet Nero has another test to see if files can be read called Scan Disk. I assume it's similar to the file integrity test Nero does when it tests archived files.

    If the files can all be read... isn't that good enough quality? If not why is video different from other files?

    The reason I'm rechecking what I know is because I just bought a DVD recorder and I'm embarking on a massive project to convert 20 years worth of VHS, 8mm, Hi8, and DV tapes to DVD. The thought having to test each burn is frightening.

    Thanks
  • NightTran
    King of Digital Video
    King of Digital Video
    • Aug 2005
    • 4224

    #2
    that is why you by good burner and good media so you dont have to test at all, I used to test alot but since TY I only test first, mid and last in the spindle
    sigpic

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    • RFBurns
      To Infinity And Byond
      • May 2006
      • 499

      #3
      With good media and running a cleaning disc and letting the recorder rest after 5 or 10 burns for a bit you shouldnt have any problems getting those tapes transfered. Might I recommend getting one of the video stabalizers to correct any potential problems that might be present in some of the older tapes that have been sitting.


      Here..I will fix it!

      Sony Digital Video and Still camera CCD imager service

      MCM Video Stabalizer

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      • ulTRAX
        Digital Video Enthusiast
        Digital Video Enthusiast
        • Jan 2005
        • 338

        #4
        Originally Posted by RFBurns
        With good media and running a cleaning disc and letting the recorder rest after 5 or 10 burns for a bit you shouldnt have any problems getting those tapes transfered. Might I recommend getting one of the video stabalizers to correct any potential problems that might be present in some of the older tapes that have been sitting.

        I bought a Panasonic EMS15... and it has TBC and DNR built into the inputs just for making such transfers. I have an old Hi8 editing deck that has TBC but I can't trust it. If worst comes to worst I'll get it repaired. Then once the tapes are transferred I can finally sell it LOL. Right now I'm transferring from an old Hi8 camcorder which I haven't used for 10 years and thought was dead. But it's working fine and once again I'm wondering about senility.

        As for giving burners a rest. A few months ago I was having terrible problems with my PC burner. But they were inconsistant. For a while I thought that heat was a problem. But since I switched to another brand of disk.... all the problems went away and they test consistantly well regardless if I burn several disks in a row. I don't have much experience with the EMS15 yet. I'm still testing brands of disks. So far it likes Sony but not Memorex. LOL
        Last edited by ulTRAX; 9 Jan 2007, 03:29 AM.

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        • ulTRAX
          Digital Video Enthusiast
          Digital Video Enthusiast
          • Jan 2005
          • 338

          #5
          Originally Posted by NightTran
          that is why you by good burner and good media so you dont have to test at all, I used to test alot but since TY I only test first, mid and last in the spindle
          Bu this gets back to my original question... which test is best? I've religiously used PIF testing and tossed any disks with a PIF higher than 4. But those disks do fine in the Scan Disk test.

          Comment

          • Chewy
            Super Moderator
            • Nov 2003
            • 18971

            #6
            don't be that picky, as long as you are in the 90's or close, it's a good burn

            use good media and see the quick scan option of cdspeed



            someone needs to bump that thread, hint

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            • ulTRAX
              Digital Video Enthusiast
              Digital Video Enthusiast
              • Jan 2005
              • 338

              #7
              Originally Posted by Chewy
              don't be that picky, as long as you are in the 90's or close, it's a good burn

              use good media and see the quick scan option of cdspeed
              I'ver tried the same disks at different speeds and noticed that 1 X seemed to get more errors than 2-4X.. and higher than that the error rate went way up. I assume it was a tracking issue.

              So if Nero Speed gets a 4 PIF spike the disk quality rating goes down to 90. What do YOU do with a disk with a PIF of 5? Wasn't there an issue that such disks might be playable but not fully copyable without errors?

              As for media I'm trying Fuji +R for the first time and have been very happy with my first spindle. Watch the spindle of 100 I just bought be total crap. (where's the smilie for banging my head on the wall! LOL)

              Comment

              • blutach
                Not a god of digital video
                • Oct 2004
                • 24627

                #8
                It might be playable but out of spec that's all. It's your backup copy. If it stuffs up, make another.

                Regards
                Les

                Essential progs - [PgcEdit] [VobBlanker] [MenuShrink] [IfoEdit] [Muxman] [DVD Remake Pro] [DVD Rebuilder] [BeSweet] [Media Player Classic] [DVDSubEdit] [ImgBurn]

                Media and Burning - [Golden Rules of Burning] [Media quality] [Fix your DMA] [Update your Firmware] [What's my Media ID Code?] [How to test your disc]
                [What's bitsetting?] [Burn dual layer disks safely] [Why not to burn with Ner0] [Interpret Ner0's burn errors] [Got bad playback?] [Burner/Media compatibility]

                Cool Techniques - [2COOL's guides] [Clean your DVD] [Join a flipper] [Split into 2 DVDs] [Save heaps of Mb] [How to mock strip] [Cool Insert Clips]

                Real useful info - [FAQ INDEX] [Compression explained] [Logical Remapping of Enabled Streams] [DVD-Replica] [Fantastic info on DVDs]


                You should only use genuine Verbatim or Taiyo Yuden media. Many thanks to www.pcx.com.au for their supply and great service.

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                • Chewy
                  Super Moderator
                  • Nov 2003
                  • 18971

                  #9
                  convert 20 years worth of VHS, 8mm, Hi8, and DV tapes to DVD.
                  I would be real picky with that project, the tape is dying

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                  • ulTRAX
                    Digital Video Enthusiast
                    Digital Video Enthusiast
                    • Jan 2005
                    • 338

                    #10
                    Originally Posted by blutach
                    It might be playable but out of spec that's all. It's your backup copy. If it stuffs up, make another.
                    When it comes to backing up my home videos... these disks won't become my backup copies... they will become my ONLY copies. From them I may make make backups and edit them to provide copies to my friends. So it's not like making a backup of a DVD so the kids don't ruin the original. That's why I want to make sure these disks are tested and won't become unreadabe in 5-10 years.

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                    • ulTRAX
                      Digital Video Enthusiast
                      Digital Video Enthusiast
                      • Jan 2005
                      • 338

                      #11
                      Originally Posted by Chewy
                      I would be real picky with that project, the tape is dying
                      LOL... probably a lot faster than my dad's old 8mm home movies he shot in the 50's. For color Kodachrome was remarkably stable which is why I always used it for my 35mm SLR. I worry less that the color on those old movies will shift than the old projector will die.

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                      • Chewy
                        Super Moderator
                        • Nov 2003
                        • 18971

                        #12
                        vhs lifetime is 20 years and by then you have already lost a lot of quality

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                        • ulTRAX
                          Digital Video Enthusiast
                          Digital Video Enthusiast
                          • Jan 2005
                          • 338

                          #13
                          Thanks to all for responding but I'm not sure my questions have been answered. So let me reframe the question. What's the relationship between PIF failures and say Nero Speed's Scandisk test which determines whether files can be read? Is there a point where PIF failures are so high that Scandisk will show a file is damaged or unreadable? If a file is readable, is that the same as saying the error correction is sufficient to make a perfect copy? Or is that a function of PIF failures? Again... once I make DVD backups of my old 8mm and Hi8 home videos... I intend to get rid of these old tapes. I have to know I can make copies of these disks for friends and family.

                          Thanks again!

                          Comment

                          • Chewy
                            Super Moderator
                            • Nov 2003
                            • 18971

                            #14
                            nero scandisk or even imgburn verify only guarantee a certain minimal level of quality, they do not give you a measure of the margin of error

                            I would make one master backup on premium media burned at slow speed and treat them very well.

                            Make 1 or 2 extras on good media for disks that you intend to share or loan

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                            • ulTRAX
                              Digital Video Enthusiast
                              Digital Video Enthusiast
                              • Jan 2005
                              • 338

                              #15
                              Originally Posted by Chewy
                              nero scandisk or even imgburn verify only guarantee a certain minimal level of quality, they do not give you a measure of the margin of error
                              So how much of a margin of error do we need? I just burned a disk that tested terribly... test included. It has a big bulge of PIFs up to 5 with some spiking towards 7. Yet it tested fine in DVD InfoPro's disk quality test.

                              So at what point are PIFs so great that they actually affect a file read test? I've noticed that when they get above 10, they go into a red zone on Nero Speed. And as long as files can be read... does that mean error correction is correcting ALL the errors so that a perfect copy could be made?

                              Thanks again!
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