HD-DVD and weird blackouts

[drfsupercenter]

OK, so this problem I'm having is very bizarre and I've never seen it before.

I have the HD-DVD addon for my Xbox 360, and it's hooked up via HDMI. I've bought a few HD-DVD movies on eBay since they're going for very cheap.

I just got one of Transformers. (The Michael Bay movie)

So I put it in the Xbox 360, and when I was playing it, it would flicker black on my TV a few times a minute, and I can't seem to figure out what's causing it. The disc isn't scratched, to my knowledge, as it was brand new when I got it. If I hit "info" on my TV, the little bar that shows "HDMI1" and 1080p stays there, so it's not a TV problem. If I turn the on-screen display on the Xbox, though, that disappears when it goes black.

So far I have only had this problem with Transformers. My other HD-DVD movies, even the ones I've rented from Blockbuster that have all sorts of scratches on them, play perfectly fine.

So is this a problem with my Xbox and/or HD-DVD addon? Or is it the disc? Anyone ever heard of or had this problem?

[admin]

I think this is a common problem with the Transformers HD DVD and the add-on drive (with the New Xbox Experience interface), see here:

http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?p=11807471

The only solution seems to be to use component, as the issue is one of HDCP (good old DRM) output by the 360.

[drfsupercenter]

That's very weird. So only Transformers has that problem?

I do recall seeing the little thing saying "HDCP link lost" and "HDCP link restored" a few times after it turned black, but not every time. And here I was thinking I'd save money by getting Transformers on HD-DVD instead of Blu-Ray!

Component cables can do 720p and 1080i, right? Which looks better for HD content? I know 720p is a better format due to the fact that it has more actual detail, but maybe 1080i would look better for movies?

[doctorhardware]

I do not see any reason why not, unless I am wrong in my thinking.

[drfsupercenter]

Any reason why not what? Using 720p instead of 1080i?

Though I know ABC and FOX (TV stations) use 720p because of sports, they say it has less blur for high motion. And stations like NBC and CBS use 1080i.

[admin]

1080i should be better, as a 1080p TV should convert that into a proper 1080p picture without any problems, so you end up with no difference to a 1080p picture (obviously the difference between a digital HDMI connection and an analogue component connection still exists). A 720p TV will downscale the 1080i picture to 720p and that will almost always look better than letting your player perform the same function.

[drfsupercenter]

They actually looked identical to me... when comparing the Xbox menus.

I know the issue is that 720p has more true vertical picture, but 1080i has more horizontal.

Is there some way to tweak the HDMI stuff so it doesn't need HDCP? It seems like most of my things don't care about it... I can be playing an HD-DVD and turn the TV off and it still plays fine. I'm gonna keep the Xbox 360 hooked up permanently via HDMI, as I only have two component inputs and those are for the Wii and GameCube. But next time I want to watch Transformers I can use the roundabout way...

[admin]

It all depends on how the TV converts 1080i to 1080p, there's some explanation here as to how it should do it to get identical pictures from 1080i and 1080p inputs:

http://wiki.digital-digest.com/index.php/1080i/p

Whatever happens, everything gets converted to your TV's native resolution (1080p?) and gets displayed as such, so it's just a matter of using your player to up/down convert or using your TV to upconvert.

HDCP is part of HDMI, and you can't get rid of it. Just another example where DRM ruins it for legitimate users, yet people are copying and downloading Blu-rays without much of a problem. The Transformers problem I think it partly to do with how the transfer/disc was produced, and also an Xbox 360 problem that was introduced when the new interface was released (so may be fixed later on).

[drfsupercenter]

So the old Xbox firmware didn't have that problem?

As far as burning Blu-Rays go... that's just a ridiculously expensive process. To even get an ISO would take days to download due to its sheer size... and Blu-Ray burnable discs are still like $20 each, last time I checked. It's almost cheaper to just buy it legitimately!

Now, once BD-Rs hit 100 packs for $20 like DVD+Rs, then maybe it'll be a real issue.

What is it that HDCP is supposed to do, anyway? There are already capture cards that support HDMI and I'm sure they fake an HDCP link... and people meaning to pirate HD content wouldn't use HDMI but just plug in a Blu-Ray/HD-DVD reader to the computer.

That blog is outdated, by the way, as now all Xbox 360s support HDMI

I'm kinda curious what would happen, however, if I get two of those HDMI to DVI cables. I don't think DVI has any sort of DRM in it, so by plugging HDMI into one of those, the HDCP kinda disappears. And then I'd plug in another one to the other end so I can plug it back into HDMI. Or would the HDCP just show back up?

[admin]

Some on the thread I linked to said that they played Transformers without any problems on the old interface software.

DVI also has HDCP, and has had them for some while. If one end of the connection has HDCP and the other end does not, then you'll get a black screen - both ends must do the handshake to ensure a protected path, which is why I think you get occasional drop-outs as the handshake/connection isn't being maintained properly for some reason on the Transformers disc with the new Xbox software.

[drfsupercenter]

Hmm, I don't suppose there's some way to downgrade the Xbox, is there?

I didn't realize DVI had HDCP... I know it's been around a lot longer than HDMI. Well, I guess I'll just use 1080i via component for now... still, this just makes me hate DRM even more. And it's a pain to switch between HDMI and component depending on what game/movie I'm using.

[doctorhardware]

I don't see why not. Isn't a bin file the you download to the xbox.

[admin]

If this becomes enough of an issue, Microsoft will fix it in a small update. So far, only the Transformers HD DVD seems to suffer from this, so you won't really need to switch the output too many times, only for this movie.