Blu-ray is here

[nwg]

Another thing to remember, is most people can see obvious improvment between DVD and VHS (plus better sound). The difference between DVD and HD is less impressive to people. I know some people who cannot tell any difference at all. There isn't that big jump in quality like from VHS to DVD.

[Huskerfan]

nwg, I guess I would have a different opinion. I do not own a HD DVD player yet, but I do suscribe to HD Television. And the reports are that the Blu Ray and HD DVD will be similar (if not better) than HD television. Without getting too technical, the HD television signals right now only show in 1080i and the blu ray will be in 1080p which would actually get you a better picture than HD TV.



Regardless, 1080i or 1080p is a night and day difference compared to 480p which is the DVD standard right now. I would even say it is a remarkable difference maybe more so than the difference between vhs and dvd. Now I would agree with the audio portion of your argument. I don't think there will be much difference in audio, but that is not the appeal of blu ray or HD-DVD.

nwg, you really still enjoy vinyl? and what do you like so much about it? I had a few albums in my earlier years--even owned a couple 8-tracks afraid to say

[nwg]

The UK is so far behind. 1080p will not be a option for a very long time. Most HDTV's sold today are only 720p and this not much better than PAL DVD which can be 576p. Many can't even accept 1080i without downscaling to 720. I believe Sky HD is just 720. The only way to get 1080p is from a extremely expensive TV (the ones I have seen are £5000 for a 55" screen) or a really expensive projector (probably around £10,000 atm).

Regarding vinyl. Is is simple. With the right equipment, it is better sound quality than anything like CD, SACD and DVD Audio (2 channel versions). I haven't played a CD for a long time.

[froggythrower]

Also, where did you hear about the BBC? At the moment, only trials are happening in very restricted numbers. Proper HD around the country is years away. I can't see how they have already decided on the price structure already.

From the big old BBC website, use the search button.

Regarding vinyl. Is is simple. With the right equipment, it is better sound quality than anything like CD, SACD and DVD Audio (2 channel versions). I haven't played a CD for a long time.

You must be a Drum & Bass DJ, because that is the only new music still coming out on vinyl

[nwg]

You must be a Drum & Bass DJ, because that is the only new music still coming out on vinyl

No it isn't. It is possible to get new music from lots of todays bands and groups as well as OST's. I don't actually buy that much new music. The last one was the 30th anniversay edition of Dark Side of the Moon by Pink Floyd. Most of my records are up to twenty years old and play perfectly.

[RFBurns]

If the only point was to "watch a movie" then why is most of the civilized world watching DVD's vs. VHS and that only took a "short" 10 years to accomplish. True, you didn't need to go out and buy any different equipment (other than the DVD player itself). I would think as more and more people's televisions hit the crapper and they buy into the HD philosophy you will see HD DVD and Blu Ray flourish just like DVD did.



And on HD DVD vs. Blu Ray? Microsoft and Apple coexist don't they?

Well lets examine history a bit. When audio CD's hit the shelves, the analog cassette tape was at its peak, giving excellent signal to noise ratios, and at a very cheap price. Vinyl albums also had vastly improved characteristics as well as the magnetic stylus cartridge. If one were to really examine it, you would find that the biggest reason for purchasing a CD was the fact that the CD does not wear out because there is no physical contact between the medium and the reading element, in this example a magnetic tape head physically touching the tape and a stylus riding on a vinyl surface. And basic laws of physics tells us that when two surfaces are rubbing against each other, wear is the result. With a CD, there is no contact whatsoever. A beam of light does the work, reading the content without the need to physically touch the recorded medium. And the CD itself has a very high resolution as far as frequency response.



The early lables on CD jewel cases would often remind the consumer that the CD can reveal the limitations of the original source master tapes, and the CD did just that, sometimes comming under scrutiny by avid audio fans that the music did not sound right when compared to the analog counterpart. Again, it was the audio enthusiast that would do most of the complaining, but the average person had no idea nor even bothered to read the CD jewel case except for song titles.



Same holds true with VHS/Beta and the DVD. VHS and Beta had physical contact with the reading elements, in their case a rotating video head that spun at high rpm and in the opposite direction of the tape travel. DVD is just like the CD, no physical contact, uses a beam to read and write, and the disc holding more content.



Again it is average consumer were referencing to, not the portion of the public that really digs down deep to find out as much as they can about a product. Ive been in the electronic industry since 1976, from retail sales to service and design engineering. Ive seen the trends and heard the complaints, mostly these days about how complex things are made. Oh its very true you might sell a $40,000.00 home theatre system with all the bells and whistles you could imagine, but I cannot emphasise how many times I have recieved calls about simple operational procedures on how to get the DVD player to come up on the tv screen when all it took was a simple push of one button on the remote control, and the customer not even bothering to find this information on page 3 of their 20 page owners manual. That alone is evidence enough to say that most average users only want it to work, they dont care how it works or why, just work so they can watch the movie.



Remember VCR-Plus?....HAHAHAHA!!!! What a joke. Doing service calls in customer homes, 90 percent of those VCR's still had "12:00" flashing on the display, and the VCR was a VCR-Plus model! VCR-Plus was supposed to make recording favorite shows a snap, quick one button hit to program the unit to record the show. NOT!!!!



Now DVD recorders......alot of the customers complain about all these complex procedures just to record that soap opera or evening program. Some units do have the one touch timer record that sets the unit to record at certian time length intervals, but even that alone confuses the heck out of your average consumer. As I have said in another post, its called "The One Button Wonder". There is no such thing as a One Button Wonder. And as more complex and intergrated these devices become, the easy path to simply watching a movie also becomes more complex until the consumer either learns their equipment, or breaks down and exchanges the complex for something more simple.



Its a shame really. The sales people that folks talk to are also not well informed about the gear they are selling. They run through basic operational procedures and thats about it. So when the customer gets that fancy 8 input LCD pannel tv the first thing they want is someone to come and hook it all up, then give a simple rundown on how it all works.



It would be interesting to take a poll and see if the average consumer is interested in how their blu-ray disc works or if they are simply interested in that will it play the movie when they want it to, or record a show when they want it to.



Fun fun in the sun!!! I think that with good information from the salesfloor AND having well trained and informed sales personnel, consumers can make better informed decisions that co-inside with their needs and wants.



No doubt that blu-ray will be here to stay, as well as the other formats for a given time. But in retrospect to what was once done by the industry as far as standards were concerned....today's manufacturing leaves standards out the door and down the drain all in a heated competition to prove their system is right for everyone.



Though they may be able to co-exsist with one another, it does not improve the end user's understanding of what they really have and what it is capable of. After all, the only deciding factor between VHS and Beta of the time was do you have a VHS machine for a VHS tape and vise versa for Beta. Did not matter if it was a mono 256 line recording or hi-fi 400 line recording....pop the tape in and it started to play....very simple.



No doubt many folks will attempt to play these blu-ray discs in their current DVD players only to end up frustrated. Oh boy, just wait till that day the switch is pulled on NTSC.......my phone will be ringing off the hook I guarantee it.

[nwg]

Its a shame really. The sales people that folks talk to are also not well informed about the gear they are selling.

I have seen some really bad selling techniques. The main one at the moment is selling a upscaling DVD player as HD which it is not. I just upscales standard DVD's to HD resolutions. Most DVD players are crap at it and don't improve the picture much. The best upscaler at the moment is the Toshiba HD-DVD player. I have seen some exceptional upscaling on it.

You then get TV's being sold as HD compatible rather than HD Ready. People assume that as HD is in the description that they both mean the TV's shows HD.

[richardboe]

So, what are they gonna put on all the space available?

From what I've read on the Blue Ray and the other system, the disk will have a tremendous amount of extra space. After a 2 hour movie will we be treated to several hours of advertisements (previews), details on the cast and crew of the movie. Do we really want to know all about the script girl or gaffer, what schools they went to???

I read that they could put all six Star Wars movies on one disk with still space left over.

[nwg]

From what I've read on the Blue Ray and the other system, the disk will have a tremendous amount of extra space. After a 2 hour movie will we be treated to several hours of advertisements (previews), details on the cast and crew of the movie. Do we really want to know all about the script girl or gaffer, what schools they went to???

I read that they could put all six Star Wars movies on one disk with still space left over.

It's not about how much can you cram on a disc but, putting High Def picture and sound with higher resolution on. It will be just like a regular DVD but with better picture and sound.

A double layered Blu Ray should be about 50GB.

[discman]

dont worry about blu ray it will be cracked same as the rest have been

[RFBurns]

I read that they could put all six Star Wars movies on one disk with still space left over.

Hmm...kind of like putting all your eggs into one basket....

Lets hope no one drops the basket.

[richardboe]

Another thing to remember, is most people can see obvious improvment between DVD and VHS (plus better sound). The difference between DVD and HD is less impressive to people. I know some people who cannot tell any difference at all. There isn't that big jump in quality like from VHS to DVD.

I was at Best Buy last night and had my first view of the Toshiba HD DVD in a demo. They had the same movie on a standard DVD player and the Toshiba HD playing side by side. The movie ("Constantine") was being shown. At best I'd say the HD picture was only maybe 10-15% clearer on the HD set.
Most viewers all agreed that the HD DVD was a lot of hipe for a lot of extra cash to convert over.
As you said, there was a big difference between VHS and DVD, but not so between DVD and HD DVD!

[nwg]

As you said, there was a big difference between VHS and DVD, but not so between DVD and HD DVD!

It does also depend on the size of the display. What size TV's were used? Were they even widescreen?

I am hoping for a better improvement when and if I start using a HD projector. The size of my current screen is 80" so, I would expect improvement that big. It will be several years before I start getting into it.

As most people don't have projectors. The TV will have to pretty big to see improvment worth an upgrade.