War on Iraq thread

[t3ch]

What's provocation mean?

I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with it... It has some points, and I wouldn't deny the fact the intelligence knew far more than they made us think we knew.

However, something like that is like saying we never landed on the moon or kennedy was killed by the government (he was... ). There's lots of evidence but it's hard to actually stand on solid ground.

Good points tho, brings up some interesting scenarios... like... what if ross hadn't said rachels name at his wedding? or......

[Batman]

I'm glad to be part of a five-star thread hehehe

[alwaysblue]

Dear Folks........just type in the name Unocal into your browser and search..............you'll find a lot of interesting stuff being hidden from the american people.
Here is the official media release of the signing of the Afghan pipeline!!!

(*Editors Note | Since September 11th, 2001, there has been intense speculation regarding Bush administration negotiations with the Taliban regarding this very project prior to the attacks. American petroleum giant Unocal very much wanted this project for years, but it was stymied in 1998 after bin Laden blew up two American embassies in Africa, causing the Taliban to be diplomatically isolated. There are a number of reports that describe a reinvigoration of this pipeline plan after Bush took office, and further describe the Bush administration's negotiations with the Taliban including threats of war if the project was not allowed to pass through Afghanistan. Some say these threats, in the name of the pipeline, triggered the 9/11 attacks. The Taliban is gone, Afghan President Harmid Karzai is a former Unocal consultant, and the pipeline deal is finally done. - wrp)

Go To Original

Agreement On US 3.2 Billion Gas Pipeline Project Signed
PakNews.com

December 28, 2002

Pakistan, Afghanistan and Turkmenistan on Friday signed here a framework agreement for a US $ 3.2 billion gas pipeline project passing through the three countries.

The ceremony was held at the Presidential Palace with the three leaders, Prime Minister Mir Zafarullah Khan Jamali, President Saparmurat Niyazov of Turkmenistan and Afghan President Hamid Karzai signing the document.

The framework agreement defines legal mechanism for setting up a consortium to build and operate the pipeline.

According to a study by Asian Development Bank (ADB), the 1460 km pipeline would use gas reserves at Dauletabad fields in Turkmenistan, which has world's fifth largest reserves, while passing through Afghanistan into Pakistan.

The three countries had earlier signed a trilateral agreement to develop a natural gas and oil pipeline from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan into Pakistan in May this year, during the first trilateral summit in Islamabad.

The three countries are laying great importance on the project as it could provide much needed boost to their economies.

(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.)

[alwaysblue]

Oil company adviser named US representative to Afghanistan
By Patrick Martin
3 January 2002
Use this version to print | Send this link by email | Email the author

President Bush has appointed a former aide to the American oil company Unocal, Afghan-born Zalmay Khalilzad, as special envoy to Afghanistan. The nomination was announced December 31, nine days after the US-backed interim government of Hamid Karzai took office in Kabul.

The nomination underscores the real economic and financial interests at stake in the US military intervention in Central Asia. Khalilzad is intimately involved in the long-running US efforts to obtain direct access to the oil and gas resources of the region, largely unexploited but believed to be the second largest in the world after the Persian Gulf.

As an adviser for Unocal, Khalilzad drew up a risk analysis of a proposed gas pipeline from the former Soviet republic of Turkmenistan across Afghanistan and Pakistan to the Indian Ocean. He participated in talks between the oil company and Taliban officials in 1997, which were aimed at implementing a 1995 agreement to build the pipeline across western Afghanistan.

Unocal was the lead company in the formation of the Centgas consortium, whose purpose was to bring to market natural gas from the Dauletabad Field in southeastern Turkmenistan, one of the world’s largest. The $2 billion project involved a 48-inch diameter pipeline from the Afghanistan-Turkmenistan border, passing near the cities of Herat and Kandahar, crossing into Pakistan near Quetta and linking with existing pipelines at Multan. An additional $600 million extension to India was also under consideration.

Khalilzad also lobbied publicly for a more sympathetic US government policy towards the Taliban. Four years ago, in an op-ed article in the Washington Post, he defended the Taliban regime against accusations that it was a sponsor of terrorism, writing, “The Taliban does not practice the anti-U.S. style of fundamentalism practiced by Iran.”

“We should ... be willing to offer recognition and humanitarian assistance and to promote international economic reconstruction,” he declared. “It is time for the United States to reengage” the Afghan regime. This “reengagement” would, of course, have been enormously profitable to Unocal, which was otherwise unable to bring gas and oil to market from landlocked Turkmenistan.

Khalilzad only shifted his position on the Taliban after the Clinton administration fired cruise missiles at targets in Afghanistan in August 1998, claiming that terrorists under the direction of Afghan-based Osama bin Laden were responsible for bombing US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. One day after the attack, Unocal put Centgas on hold. Two months later it abandoned all plans for a trans-Afghan pipeline. The oil interests began to look towards a post-Taliban Afghanistan, and so did their representatives in the US national security establishment.


Liasion to Islamic guerrillas

Born in Mazar-e Sharif in 1951, Khalilzad hails from the old ruling elite of Afghanistan. His father was an aide to King Zahir Shah, who ruled the country until 1973. Khalilzad was a graduate student at the University of Chicago, an intellectual center for the American right-wing, when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan in 1979.

Khalilzad became an American citizen, while serving as a key link between US imperialism and the Islamic fundamentalist mujahedin fighting the Soviet-backed regime in Kabul—the milieu out of which both the Taliban and bin Laden’s Al Qaeda group arose. He was a special adviser to the State Department during the Reagan administration, lobbying successfully for accelerated US military aid to the mujahedin, including hand-held Stinger anti-aircraft missiles which played a key role in the war. He later became undersecretary of defense in the administration of Bush’s father, during the US war against Iraq, then went to the Rand Corporation, a top US military think tank.

After Bush was installed as president by a 5-4 vote of the US Supreme Court, Khalilzad headed the Bush-Cheney transition team for the Defense Department and advised incoming Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Significantly, however, he was not named to a subcabinet position, which would have required Senate confirmation and might have provoked uncomfortable questions about his role as an oil company adviser in Central Asia and intermediary with the Taliban. Instead, he was named to the National Security Council, where no confirmation vote was needed.

At the NSC Khalilzad reports to Condoleeza Rice, the national security adviser, who also served as an oil company consultant on Central Asia. After serving in the first Bush administration from 1989 to 1992, Rice was placed on the board of directors of Chevron Corporation and served as its principal expert on Kazakhstan, where Chevron holds the largest concession of any of the international oil companies. The oil industry connections of Bush and Cheney are well known, but little has been said in the media about the prominent role being played in Afghan policy by officials who advised the oil industry on Central Asia.

One of the few commentaries in the America media about this aspect of the US military campaign appeared in the San Francisco Chronicle last September 26. Staff writer Frank Viviano observed: “The hidden stakes in the war against terrorism can be summed up in a single word: oil. The map of terrorist sanctuaries and targets in the Middle East and Central Asia is also, to an extraordinary degree, a map of the world’s principal energy sources in the 21st century.... It is inevitable that the war against terrorism will be seen by many as a war on behalf of America’s Chevron, Exxon, and Arco; France’s TotalFinaElf; British Petroleum; Royal Dutch Shell and other multinational giants, which have hundreds of billions of dollars of investment in the region.”


Silence in the media

This reality is well understood in official Washington, but the most important corporate-controlled media outlets—the television networks and major national daily newspapers—have maintained silence that amounts to deliberate, politically motivated self-censorship.

The sole recent exception is an article which appeared December 15 in the New York Times business section, headlined, “As the War Shifts Alliances, Oil Deals Follow.” The Times reported, “The State Department is exploring the potential for post-Taliban energy projects in the region, which has more than 6 percent of the world’s proven oil reserves and almost 40 percent of its gas reserves.”

The Times noted that during a visit in early December to Kazakhstan, “Secretary of State Colin L. Powell said he was ‘particularly impressed’ with the money that American oil companies were investing there. He estimated that $200 billion could flow into Kazakhstan during the next 5 to 10 years.”

Secretary of Energy Spencer Abraham also pushed US oil investments in the region during a November visit to Russia, on which he was accompanied by David J. O’Reilly, chairman of ChevronTexaco.

Defense Secretary Rumsfeld has also played a role in the ongoing oil pipeline maneuvers. During a December 14 visit to Baku, capital of Azerbaijan, he assured officials of the oil-rich Caspian state that the administration would lift sanctions imposed in 1992 in the wake of the conflict with Armenia over the enclave of Nagorno-Karabakh.

Both Azerbaijan and Armenia have aligned themselves with the US military thrust into Central Asia, offering the Pentagon transit rights and use of airfields. Rumsfeld’s visit and his conciliatory remarks were the reward. Rumsfeld told President Haydar Aliyev that the administration had reached agreement with congressional leaders to waive the sanctions.

On November 28 the White House released a statement hailing the official opening of the first new pipeline by the Caspian Pipeline Consortium, a joint venture of Russia, Kazakhstan, Oman, ChevronTexaco, ExxonMobil and several other oil companies. The pipeline connects the huge Tengiz oilfield in northwestern Kazakhstan to the Russian Black Sea port of Novorossiysk, where tankers are loaded for the world market. US companies put up $1 billion of the $2.65 billion construction cost.

The Bush statement declared, “The CPC project also advances my Administration’s National Energy Policy by developing a network of multiple Caspian pipelines that also includes the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan, Baku-Supsa, and Baku-Novorossiysk oil pipelines and the Baku-Tbilisi-Erzurum gas pipeline.”

There was little US press coverage of this announcement. Nor did the media refer to the fact that the pipeline consortium involved in the Baku-Ceyhan plan, led by the British oil company BP, is represented by the law firm of Baker & Botts. The principal attorney at this firm is James Baker III, secretary of state under Bush’s father and chief spokesman for the 2000 Bush campaign during its successful effort to shut down the Florida vote recount.

[admin]

I have removed moridon77's post. While I respect other people's opinions, and allow free speech in these forums, but moridon77's post ("Arabs should be cleansed from the Earth") was just not acceptable.

If moridon77 is indeed going to fight in the war, as he states in his post, then I hope that he comes back safe and sound.

Please also remember to keep this discussion within reason, as I am this close (fingers inch apart) from closing this thread. I will try to refrain from posting any more rumors, and concentrate more on facts (although this is very hard, considering the absolutely shocking TV coverage of the war, which is laced with rumors and lies from both sides).

[alwaysblue]

It is really unfortunate to find some people who treat the media likes of CNN, cbs, nbc and so on as the only source of the truth, what is important in my previous posts is not only are those point of views taken from real live events - they also come from both international and american sources. It seems the major american media stations choose to ignore and censor what they tell the american public. It is a pity, we should promote peace not violence and we should learn to understand other cultures which I find is the only way to educate yourself and see various point of views. It is then we can create a climate of a real peace.
Right now the U.S is driving even moderate to friendly people against them to a point where a totally insane individual such as Saddam Hussein is becoming a hero. This is the biggest consequence related to the war right behind the obvious loss of innocent Iraqi lives and the loss of American soldiers who are being sacrificed for the greed of the american admin. - Bush!!!!!!!

[The Edge]

Some intelligent qoutes (<- sarcasm)
Cannot post source as the images of death on the site are to strong for our younger forum members.
Just to keep tread active (sorry admin )

"We had a great day. We killed a lot of people."
-Sgt. Eric Schrumpf, Fifth Marine Regiment, March 29, 2003

"Coalition forces are working to save Iraqi lives.
We do this because ..... our nation and our people value human life."
-D. Rumsfeld, March 28, 2003

"There's no -- no one in this government, here or on the ground, is going to underreport what's happening. That's just terrible to think that. Even to suggest it is outrageous. Most certainly not! The facts are reported."
-D. Rumsfeld, March 28, 2003

We have a very, very deliberate process for targeting. It's unlike
any other targeting process in the world. It takes into account all science.
It takes into account all capability. And we do everything physically
and scientifically possible to be precise in our targeting,
whether it's on people or on structures,"
- U.S. Brigadier General Vincent Brooks, CENTCOM Briefing, March 26, 2003

We have not seen any accurate reports or intelligence that
suggests there's a humanitarian crisis in Iraq.
- D. Rumsfeld, March 28, 2003

"We remain true to our stated purposes of removing the
regime and liberating the long-oppressed people of Iraq,
and we will not stop until we have done so,"
-U.S. Brigadier General Vincent Brooks, CENTCOM Briefing, March 27, 2003

"The current generation of our military is not letting us down.
They are making great progress in the war on Iraq."
-G.W. Bush, March 28, 2003

“It is a breathtaking sight to see it,"
-Donald Rumsfeld, Pentagon Briefing, March 25, 2003

"We remain committed to preserving the rich culture
and heritage and the resources of the Iraqi people,"
- U.S. Brigadier General Vincent Brooks, CENTCOM Briefing, March 26, 2003

"I am satisfied that we have done all that we can do, again,
to remain precise, remain on the plan, and attack those targets
that were necessary for us,"
- U.S. Brigadier General Vincent Brooks, CENTCOM Briefing, March 26, 2003

Soon the Iraqi people will see the great compassion of not only the United States, but other nations around the world who care deeply
about the human condition inside that country,"
-G.W. Bush at Pentagon Briefing, March 25, 2003

"You see people who are tasting, for the first time
in their lives, what freedom is,"
-U.S. Brigadier General Vincent Brooks, CENTCOM Briefing, March 27, 2003

“You got to go in there and bust their chops badly,
and let the speed and momentum and violence overwhelm them.”
-Army Gen. Barry R. McCaffrey, March 25, 2003

“This will be a campaign unlike any other in history,”
- U.S. General Franks at a Press Briefing on March 22, 2003

"To the Iraqi people, let me say that the day of your liberation will soon be at hand,"
- D. Rumsfeld, Pentagon Briefing, March 20, 2003

Coalition forces will take every precaution to protect innocent civilians,"
- D. Rumsfeld, Pentagon Briefing, March 20, 20

Edge

[alwaysblue]

Thank-you for the quotes Edge, I had missed a couple!!!!

[The Edge]

A few more qoutes:-

CNN said that after the war, there is a plan to divide Iraq

into three parts ... regular, premium and unleaded."

Jay Leno

"War continues in Iraq. They're calling it Operation Iraqi

Freedom. They were going to call it Operation Iraqi

Liberation until they realized that spells 'OIL.'"

Jay Leno

"Yesterday, the president met with a group he calls the

coalition of the willing. Or, as the rest of the world calls

them, Britain and Spain."

Jon Stewart

"According to the New York Times, Saddam Hussein has mined all

his oil fields, planted bombs in all his major cities, he's

got bombs in the military installations, in the airports, and

he's mined all the government buildings. There's not much

left for us to do, really."

Jay Leno

"Good news for Iraq. There's a 50 percent chance that

President Bush will confuse it with Iran."

Craig Kilborn

"President Bush spent last night calling world leaders to

support the war with Iraq and it is sad when the most

powerful man on earth is yelling, 'I know you're there, pick

up, pick up."

Craig Kilborn

"President Bush spent the day calling names he couldn't

pronounce in countries he never knew existed."

Jay Leno

"President Bush found out something this week. Between the

countries of Camaroone, Chile, Angola and Syria, Angola

plays the best music when they put you on hold."

Craig Kilborn

"As you all know we're about to start March Madness. That's

NCAA college basketball tournament when they start with 64

teams and you whittle them down to just one, you know kind

of like our allies."

Jay Leno

"Turkey has voted not to allow U.S. troops into their country

and Saddam Hussein said 'You can do that?'"

Jay Leno

"A lot of students around the country protested the war today.

The National Youth and Student Peace Coalition sponsored an

anti-war organization called 'Books Not Bombs.' President

Bush said, 'Why do you want to drop books on them?'"

Jay Leno

"My wife wanted to go somewhere expensive for the weekend. So,

I took her down the street to the local Texaco."

Jay Leno

"Experts say that if we go to war with Iraq, oil could reach

as much as $80 a barrel. Of course, after the war it will

be free."

Jay Leno

"Saddam Hussein also challenged President Bush to a debate.

The Butcher of Baghdad vs. the Butcher of the English

language."

Jay Leno

"President Bush announced tonight that he believes in

democracy and that democracy can exist in Iraq. They can

have a strong economy, they can have a good health care

plan, and they can have a free and fair voting. Iraq? We

can't even get this in Florida."

Jay Leno

"In an interview with Dan Rather, Saddam has challenged

President Bush to a live, televised debate. I think this

would be fair, since English is a second language to both

of them."

Jay Leno

"President Bush has said that he does not need approval from

the UN to wage war, and I'm thinking, well, hell, he didn't

need the approval of the American voters to become president,

either."

David Letterman

"In a speech earlier today President Bush said if Iraq gets

rid of Saddam Hussein, he will help the Iraqi people with

food, medicine, supplies, housing, education . anything

that's needed. Isn't that amazing? He finally comes up with

a domestic agenda . and it's for Iraq. Maybe we could bring

that here if it works out."

Jay Leno

"Secretary of State Colin Powell addressed the United Nations

Security Council, offering a compelling 90-minute

presentation that not only furthered his case but reminded

the world why America is second to none in the field of

PowerPoint."

Jay Leno

"You know why the French don't want to bomb Saddam Hussein?

Because he hates America, he loves mistresses and wears a

beret. He is French, people."

Conan O'Brien

"The state of Texas executed its third prison inmate this

week. This week. In fact, they don't even have a last meal

anymore, now it's a buffet."

Jay Leno

"I read today that the president was interrupted 73 times by

applause and 75 times by really big words."

Jay Leno

"This week officials from France, Russia and Germany accused

President Bush of having a fondness for war. Yeah, when asked

about it, a spokesman for Bush said, 'It's a one syllable

word, of course he's fond of it.'"

Conan O'Brien


Edge

[Dude2003]

smile

thanks for the smile... in such a sad time..... we needed that

[alwaysblue]

Same here, thanks for injecting some humour!!!!!!!!!!

[The Edge]

Does anyone have Saddam's email address?
I want to email him the above qoutes.


Edge

[SKD_Tech]

*Laughing* I wish I did! I have some words to throw at him for killing our POW's

[alwaysblue]

I hope I don't offend anyone with some of my personal opinions I'm about to submit. I am against war unless it is as a very last resort and it is just. I've always found the quarrels of middle-east Arab nations similiar to those of an infant who has yet to grow and mature. They seem to be living in a very past primitive era with quarrels dating back to biblical times. While the whole world including China have grown to a reasonable extent, most middle-east nations still lack vision, they are treated as savages because they rely on their islamic belief to the extent that they never progress and it seems they can't separate religion from gov't. When you see idiots(excuse my expression) praising the likes of Saddam Hussein and Bin Laden you must really ask yourself if these people have any intelligence at all, it would be like us making a hero out of Charles Manson!! Blowing up yourself including pregnant women does NOT give the rest of the world any other image of them than complete utter idiots. I've said enough for now, may God bless you all!!

[gd_nimrod]

Defensive war is one thing, but this offensive war the coalition is leading is totally unnecessary.