Pal/ntsc

[swraman]

OK...Im back up and working on this...
I am still having this audio/video syncing problem. Heres the situation:

I have teh VOB's and IFO's/bUP's of the main movie of the DVD. The main movie is FULLY converted to NTSC. If I burn it to a DVD from these files, the file plays fine, with no audio syncing problem.
But, in the conversion, I lost the 2nd/3rd audio channels and the subtitles, and I wish to add them onto the NTSC DVD.

So I demultiplex the VOBs of the CONVERTED (NTSC VERSION) main movie, and end up with a video file and a audio file. All is still good.
But, when I ReMux the Audio and video (The audio and video are BOTH from the NTSC version of the DVD) along with subtitles ripped from the ORIGINAL PAL DVD, the audio problem starts.
The audio becomes gradually out of sync with the video. It starts off in sync, but by the end of the movie, it is about 2 seconds off.

I used the program you suggested (DGIndex) to demux. I have also tried PCGDemux to demux. I have tried MuxMan and IfoEdit to remux. Both end up with the same audio problem.


I really want to get this fixed...Any help at all is appreciated.

Thanks!!

[benbryant]

Converting PAL to NTSC

HI swraman,

Below is the way and are tools I use to convert PAL DVD to NTSC DVD

In order to convert DVD from PAL to NTSC, we need below tools:

1. • DVDShrink or DVD Decrypter
   
2. • DGIndex (DGMPGDec)
   
3. • TMPGEnc Plus
   
4. • DBPulldown

Procedure:

• Load the video DVD and use DVDShrink or DVD Decrypter to save it to the hard drive • Start DGMPGDec, go to File and click Open. Browse to the VIDEO_TS folder of the DVD backup, select and open all the available files • On the File List, choose the first very top file, click Add to load the video to DGMPGDec • Go to File, select Save Project (F4) to create a new name and location for DGIndex Project File (*.d2v) • Start TMPGEnc Plus, press Load to open the Template, and load the "DVD (PAL).mcf" template (This is the template of the original PAL file) • Click Browse button to open the Audio and Video sources and the Output file name • If we go to the Setting right now, we will notice that most of the settings on the Video tab become grayed out • Therefore, we have to click Load button again, open the Extra folder, and load the "unlock.mcf" template • Now, press the Setting button, on the Video tab change the video resolution from PAL to NTSC (For example: changing from 720x576 to 720x480) • Change the Encode mode from "Interlace" to "Progressive" (Non-interlace) • Don’t change the Framerate. Just keep it at 25 fps • After encoding the file, go to TMPGEnc Plus, File, Mpeg Tools, Simple De-multiplex, load the mpg, and demux it into the m2v and mp2 files ( This step is necessarily needed to have a lesser chance of the audio going out of sync • Open DGPulldown, click Browse to load the m2v file, choose the desired framerate from 25 fps to 29.97 fps, and click Convert button • The DGPulldown is useful for applying traditional 3:2 pulldown which takes a progressive MPEG-2 video elementary stream and applies pulldown flags to change it to a higher legal MPEG-2 output framerate. It also allows changing/correction of timecodes • After the DGPulldown conversion is done, the m2v and mp2 can be remuxed by using TMPGEnc Plus, File, Mpeg Tools,Simple Multiplex to be authored with any DVD author programs or opening them directly to the TMPGEnc DVD Author for DVD authoring

[swraman]

OK...Ill try that out tomorrow... Does that method preserve subtitles and languages of the DVD?

In the mean time, does anyone have the solution to the problem at hand?

I tried DeMuxing the VOB Files and ReMuxing them (without adding any subtitles) and the audio was still out of syc. I don't see why that is so...all I did was demux, ad remux the de-muxed files...and the audio sync (which was OK in the original VOB) is nmot OK in the ReMuxed VOB.

[drfsupercenter]

swraman, can you let me know when that tutorial is done? I have been trying to convert a PAL disc to NTSC for some time now and don't know how to do it without reincoding like putting to an AVI and then fixing the stream. If it is long, you can email it to me at drfsupercenter@yahoo.com

Thanks in advance, that will really help me out!

[swraman]

Yeah...sure..

Right now, my biggest problem is getting the audio to sync with the video though...

If anyone has any assistance with that...Idd really appreciate it.

[blutach]

New guide by benbryant in stickies.

And audio going out of sync in frame rate conversions is ALWAYS the major hassle.

folks!

Regards

[swraman]

Well...I am still having this problem...
But I think I have found out some new things.

I have both the audio and video converted to NTSC, 720x480 29.970fps. THe audio matches up and I am able to burn them to a DVD, and it works in a NTSC DVD player perfectly.
But, I need to add subtitles to it. So I demux the NTSC into the video and audio streams. HOWEVER- if I remux the 2 demuxed files, the audio does the out of sync thing.

I don't think it is a frame rate conversion...I converted the audio from 25.00fps to 29.970fps, and it made the re-muxed DVD go much more out of sync. Furthermore, if you do the math...25fps->29.97...~5frames added per second. so every 6 seconds, the audio will get to be a full second off. In a 2-hr movie...that will get to be about 20minutes off. But the audio delay Im having is very small...about 5 seconds.

Ive even opened up in Gold Wave, and tried to adjust the length of the audio to the length of the total fideo...but that didn't work either.

I have been racking my brain over this one...if anyone has any answers, please let me know!!

Thanks

[blutach]

When you demuxed did you figure out the audio delay? Use PGCDemux. A delay of 5 seconds is a bit much though - uncomliant. 300ms, from memory is the maximum.

Regards

[benbryant]

"I don't think it is a frame rate conversion...I converted the audio from 25.00fps to 29.970fps, and it made the re-muxed DVD go much more out of sync. Furthermore, if you do the math...25fps->29.97...~5frames added per second. so every 6 seconds, the audio will get to be a full second off. In a 2-hr movie...that will get to be about 20minutes off. But the audio delay Im having is very small...about 5 seconds."

When you use TMPGEnc to encode your file, you convert it to NTSC 720x480 with framerate of 25 fps. Next, you utilize the MPEG Tools of TMPGEnc to demux your file so that you can run DGPulldown to apply 3:2 pulldown on your
video (not audio) to minimize the chance for audio and video to go out of sync. Finally, remux them together.

If you want AviSynth script to convert PAL to NTSC instead, you can convert your file

LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\DGDecode.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\AC3Source.dll")
mpeg2source("E:\DVD\B DGIndex\test.d2v")
AC3Source("E:\DVD\B DGIndex\Test.ac3")
AssumeFPS(23.976,true)
Lanczos4Resize(720,480)

Then encode it at 23.976fps with 2:3 or 3:2 Pulldown enabled and you will end up with a NTSC Video File and an audio file that are in sync...To use this Script you will have to have the AC3Source.dll Plugin on your System

In case your audio goes out of sync and you want to use GoldWave to correct it. Try this:

1. Select Effects->Time Warp
2. Change % If NTSC(23,976fps) to PAL(25fps) select 1.0427% (25/23.976) If PAL(25fps) to NTSC(23,976) select 95.904% (23.976/25)
3. Hit OK, your audio should now be either a bit shorter or longer depending what conversion you made.

Regards

[drfsupercenter]

Sounds like you are almost done! I am looking forward to a finished guide! Because the one benbryant wrote does not do menus - thankfully your way does!

[blutach]

Sorry to but in again, but have you tried BeSweet for the framerate conversion? It does seem, however, that you had it right to begin with.

Regards

[swraman]

benbryant: Yes, I have trieg Gold Wave to try to "time warp" the audio to no sucuss...still a syncing problem. I am using 29.97fps for NTSC video btw.

blutach: I have used PCGdemux to demux the video...and it said the audio delay is 0. I don't think it is an audio "delay problem though...it starts out right, then goes out of sync prograssivley.
And yes, I have tried BeSweet to get the framerate on the audio changed...But it made the audio waay too fast (doing the gain a second each 6 seconds thing).

The only thiong I can think up of is that the video I re-encoded from PAL to NTSC is...funky, for lack of a better term. It plays fine, but If I de-mux and re-mux it, it goes out of sync with the audio.
Ill try another program to actually convert the video and see if that helps at all...although I can't see the logic in doing so.

[blutach]

OK what verison of muxman are you using? It might be a remux problem and if so, mpucoder woud definitely want to know.

BTW: Latest release for advanced members is 16. v17.2 is in testing.

Regards

[swraman]

Dont think so...Ive used MuxMan and IFOEdit, they both have the same problems.

Do you know of any other programs that will convert the actual .VOB files from PAL to NTSC?

[blutach]

I've not needed it (all players out here play NTSC), but it is built in to Procoder 2. They say it does a great job.

What version of muxman - it is in constant development. As I said, if it's a bug, mpucoder will surely wanna know and fix it.

Regards