Starting out with HMC150, need workflow/NLE advice please!

[Shawn.W]

Hello everyone,

I just recently bought the HMC150 and a quad core PC to edit with. I'm new to the HD scene so I was hoping you guys could help me with some startup questions. First off here's my PC specs:

OS: vista 64bit - stability issues with some NLE's?
i7 920 2.6GHz quad core processor
ATI radeon HD4850 GFX card
12 gigs DDR3 ram
2) 640GB HDs in raid 0 for OS and media cache
2) 1TB HDs for footage storage and backup, can buy more if needed

I'll soon be starting a project to promote multiple departments within a local college. There will likely be 20 + hours of footage once im done shooting, and then I will work with a friend to add in motion graphics and other effects. I would also like to do minor color correction. Previously I would use my old powerbook G4 for editing in Final Cut Pro, as this is what i learned on, but it was much cheaper to build my own PC that could handle AVCHD than buy a new mac.

So the questions are, what format do you guys think i should be shooting in, and what sort of work flow do you think would work best for this project? I'll be finishing to DVD and the web and fast turnaround is not a requirement, i have quite a while to edit. I haven't committed to any NLE at this point, so recommendations for Vegas or PPro CS4 or anything else are welcome. Im not sure if this is a valid at all as ive never edited on PC, but if any NLE is similar to FCP i would be more comfortable with that.

Im also questioning if I will need to use an intermediate, i have read a bit on cineform. I worry that I may need one, even though it seems my system should be able to handle AVCHD editing, because today as I played back some test footage in PPro CS4 4.1 it had weird artifacts and black shadows / blocks that would pop up during playback. These are not on the actual footage, and also when i press the right arrow and go through the footage slightly slower it plays fine without any artifacts. Then again could this just be a GFX card / GFX drivers problem? (fully up to date), i have had minor issues with it lately on my gaming partition. Let me know what you guys think, Thanks!


- Shawn

[UncasMS]

hello shawn,

avchd editing is still not supported very well with most editing software available

which could be the ideal format to output to?
1080p/24 would be my answer in case you want to create blu-ray/avchd/mini-bd because that would be the ideal framerate and resolution and turning interlaced (1080I) material into really decent bd/avchd would not match my view of best quality BUT you mentioned output to DVD/web

this becomes a tough question now, as i think that in case your panasonic would output to standard dvd resolution the editing may be easier because no conversion will have to take place

i'm really not sure at all which format to take because on the one hand i'd say:

go for the best quality and think of future use of the material
(this would make me opt for 1080p/24 film)

but converting 1080p/24 to ntsc dvd standard MAY be a bad choice and perhaps filming with 1080p/30 could provide you with better final results

if i were you i'd make some testshots with these formats and maybe include any of the 720 res output formats as well and see how different trial versions of software handle the material and above all OUTPUT them to your final format

[Shawn.W]

basically here are my main considerations.

- This will be a long project, months of shooting

- I will be doing some color correction and motion graphics in post

- I need to be able to store and backup whatever file types i end up editing in hopefully in under 4TB of space. As i think i can only add 2 more Hard drives to my PC on top of the 2TB storage i already have.

Ive read a bit about using "proxies" or down converting to SD to edit, although i dont understand this process well at all. Then also about transcoding footage to a file type that is easier to scrub through and edit with, especially if your considering color correction or effects. However it seems transcoding creates much larger files, which im not sure i would be able to store considering i may have 20+ hours of footage from this project. Im also still not clear on if you export having worked off the transcoded file all along and thats it, or if you revert back to the pre-transcoded file before export?

Someone also mentioned shooting in lower bit rates to save on space and editing troubles. Im not very tech savy on how exactly bit rates translate into quality, but would this also be an option to save space?

- Shawn

[UncasMS]

- dont worry about 4tb or adding "only" two more drives: you could easily add a pci card which provides 2-4 additional sata connections so adding 2-4 additional drives per pci slot will be possible apart from using e-sata or usb connections. so the amnount of drives shouldnt be your main concern.


- shooting with lower bitrate or lower RESOLUTION in order to save space?
i would not compromise on the input material as the golden rule still stays: crap in, crap out
take the best possible format and resolution - reducing it can always be done but the other way around is like turning shyt into gold


- i dont understand "proxies" in connection to video editing
what did you read about?


- also what do you have in mind with "transcoding" when it comes to editing/color correction?

whatever software you will use in the end will take a long time to apply any change and you should not convert/transcode your material more often than necessary unless you are using lossless codecs or otherwise you will loose quality each time you "transcode"

saving/cutting to rather smaller parts could be a good idea in order to make your machine chunk on small bits and pieces for each process but sooner or later you will have to set all the "fragments" together and save/convert to a final output format


- like i said before: grab your panasonic and take some test footage of say 1, 2 or 5 mins in different formats/resolutions like 1080p/24 or 720/30i and then download some trial software for the editing process which will have to be able to read AVCHD as input format.
now load test samples into say pinnacle or corel video studio or premiere if you like and test their editing abilities and most of all take notes of how long editing/converting takes for a 5min (or any other time frame) clip as there may be huge differences

[Shawn.W]

- what exactly would be the best possible format for this project? if im going to dvd and web video, why do i need to shoot over 720? also, does anyone recommend 60i or 30p or 24p for this sort of long form promo video? any mode have less issues and work better with adding motion graphics or color correction?

- I read about proxies being something like you bring in your HD footage, then open up a SD sequence or down convert to SD, edit in SD, then somehow revert back to HD before export, thus having edited with SD in proxy for HD? still not clear on how this works. i will likely be using PPro CS4 if someone could explain how it would work in that program.

- with transcoding, using something like cineform, i start with my AVCHD files, then transcode to cineform avi, but do i export using the cineform avi in the timeline? or do i somehow revert back to the original AVCHD before export?

thanks!

- Shawn

[UncasMS]

from what i understand "proxy editing" means something like converting the initial large input material to something smaller in pixelsize in order to be able to do all the editing in "reasonable" speed because the (temporary) material for the editing (effects/cutting etc) is way smaller

having done all the editing but not yet rendered/encoded the workflow material to a final output one will have to exchange all the downconverted proxy files with the original material

c.f. here

if you have no intention to use HD output formats then stick to smaller SD resolutions which will be smalelr and maybe the whole proxy editing/process can be eliminated as you do not deal with high res material