Looking for a Surround Sound System

[UncasMS]

They are ok.

When it comes to normal AVR, Onkyo gives you a very good bang for the buck and their more inexpensive surround systems are decent for the money you pay just as well.

The HT-S 3200 and 3300 should be in your price range.
3300 supports HDMI 1.4 and thus 3D, the 3200 is the older one and has 1.3 support.
In case they are similar in price get the newer one, otherwise the 3200 is just as good, as the 3D support seems the only difference.

[admin]

Sorry about the confusion regarding HD audio/7.1, I sort of took a shortcut that I probably shouldn't have. Here's a brief rundown on Blu-ray audio, some stuff is a bit outdated, but it gives a rough idea of what's new for Blu-ray audio:

http://www.digital-digest.com/articles/Blu-ray_HD_DVD_Buyers_Guide_page6.html

Note that the "core" Dolby/DTS streams that are compatible with legacy receivers are usually at a higher bitrate than the Dolby/DTS streams on DVDs (double the normal bitrate in terms of DTS-HD core vs DTS), so even with an older 5.1 receiver, you're getting "better" audio (more bits anyway - whether you can hear the difference, like UncasMS says, depends on your audio setup).

The good thing about Onkyo HTiBs is that it's all just receiver + speakers, no included DVD or Blu-ray player which since you already have the PS3, would be overkill. Actually I just plucked Onkyo out of the air because that's the brand I use, but there are other brands offering equally good value, so you may have to do some research.

They still make 5.1 receivers, not many still do, here's their new entry level one:

http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-HT-S3300-5-1-Channel-Theater-Receiver/dp/B003BEDQR6/

Supports HDMI 1.4, so somewhat future proof. And it supports HD audio in the form of decoded PCM, and it does support decoding as well (although you'll need a Slim PS3 for that function to work). But as UncasMS already mentioned, whether you'll notice the difference or not compared to a normal DVD audio track is debatable.

Read the reviews on these and other receivers on Amazon, and it will give you a good idea one which ones are good (or at least, which ones to avoid), and the pros/cons of each (for example, this particular Onkyo doesn't have enough power for large rooms in the opinion of one customer, and he recommends the $200 more expensive HT-S5300 if that's you're environment).

Onkyo are well known for their receivers, not so much their speakers though, but they're almost giving the speakers away if you compare prices of the same/similar receiver without speakers (and this little fact gives you an indication of the speaker's likely audio quality, ie. not the most brilliant in the world. But going from TV speakers, it will still be a good improvement). And you can always get new speakers, although this particular Onkyo requires a passive sub-woofer. I think as your first HT sound system coming from TV speakers, it's a good start.

[drfsupercenter]

Well I wasn't just saying Onkyo because you mentioned it, I was at a store the other day that sells home theater equipment and the salesman there also recommended it. I was only leaning towards Panasonic since I wanted the VIERALink thing which is more pointless than I thought.

That 5.1 set you both recommended looks pretty good - my only concern is the rear speakers... I kinda liked the ones that had wireless rear speakers, though are those not as good due to lag? I suppose I could run wire though the ceiling, it IS in a basement so there's room to run wires up there.

As for the room being large, I don't think it's that big, so I should be fine.
Now, we do have enough speakers to almost make our own surround system... I have four that were from stereo units and two large ones that my parents used on a radio back in college... don't know how well those would work though, and we still need a subwoofer. I think I could just use the ones that come with it, since they're small and easier to mount than what I have.

Now as for the 5.1/7.1 thing... if I DO decide to use HDMI for the audio for Blu-Rays that have 7.1, will the receiver intelligently downsample it to 5.1 for me? Or will it sound just like my TV speakers do - really loud at parts and really quiet at others?

And lastly, does that receiver do upscaling of RCA inputs or not? (The guy at the store mentioned some do)

[UncasMS]

5.1/7.1 has no influence on the dynamic - so the question how loud a shot/explosion or the like may be in comparison to a dialogue has nothing to do with 7.1/5.1 but is always a question of how the soundstream was mixed.

Normally a DTS stream will present itself with more dynamic as DD streams very often have been dynamically compressed therefor DD loundness in those screne will be reduced so that average joe without a decent sound system wont complain too much.

On the other hand many receivers have special functions for this dynamic compression, which you can activate. In case of the Onkyo 3300 it is called Audyssey Dynamic Volume which might help.

And lastly, does that receiver do upscaling of RCA inputs or not?

NO =>

Component Video Upconversion -
Analog To HDMI UpConversion -

If you have a 7.1 sound input and only 5.1 output/system then don't worry - it'll be just fine and played as 5.1 ( I think the rear back channels will get dropped)

[drfsupercenter]

OK, well the thing I noticed is however my TV works... it seems to downscale surround sound in a way that explosions and stuff are like 10 times louder than the voices... since those are probably supposed to be on all 5 speakers where the dialog is just centered. Surround sound should help fix that balance.

And what, you just said no it doesn't do upscaling but you quoted where it says analog to HDMI up conversion?

[UncasMS]

Take a look at the Onkyo homepage.

Both option i quoted are a NO.

But let's be honest: who needs analog upscaling?
Trash in trash out!

[drfsupercenter]

Oh, OK

And yes I suppose, but things like my old N64, you just can't replace it, and if it looks better on the TV....

But whatever, I think I'll still use optical out to the receiver.

[drfsupercenter]

Well, we went to a brick and mortar store and ended up buying a 7.1 HTIB (Onkyo). As the guy said they don't even carry 5.1 anymore.

Got it all hooked up, I'll have to play around with it more when I get a chance and it doesn't bug my parents.

But the guy at the store also said optical out from the TV would work just fine and that on 7.1 content it would play 7.1 - is this true? As you guys were saying it only supported 5.1 or something...

[admin]

Congrats on the purchase!

You can sort of get 6.1/7.1 with Dolby Digital EX and DTS-ES tracks found on certain DVDs if you use the optical input.

You can only get high bit-rate/high definition audio found on Blu-ray's if you use HDMI (and if your receiver is a HDMI repeater, in that it accepts audio over HDMI, and doesn't just "pass-thru" the video component to its own HDMI output port and ignore the audio component) - these high bitrate audio tracks are sometimes in 5.1, sometimes in 7.1.

Which Onkyo HTIB did you get?

Let us know how it all sounds when you've got everything connected.

[drfsupercenter]

It's the S5300 model.

But if I have a Blu-Ray with 7.1 audio, and I use HDMI from the PS3 to the TV... are you saying it won't still be 7.1 when it gets passed along through optical to the receiver? I guess I don't get how that works.

So far we tried watching some HD TV stations that were 5.1... but the odd thing is it was only doing 3.1 - I had to enable "stereo all" mode which is just up-sampled 2.0... I'll have to play around with settings later, there's way too many settings!
Though the odd thing is that it showed the sound input as being 5.1, despite only the front 3 being active. Though as one of my friends suggested, since it wasn't prime-time, it might have just not HAD surround on that particular broadcast, which would explain it. I need to test it with my PS3 when my parents are done watching the World Cup.

[UncasMS]

Onkyo only recently brought the 3300 system as a new and "improved" version because of its 3D capability:

http://www.us.onkyo.com/prod_class.cfm?class=Systems

so saying there are no more 5.1 system may be clever in terms of being able to sell the higher priced 5xxx version - too bad you fell for it

[admin]

To be fair, the S5300 is more than just the S3300 with an extra two speaker output. It's probably worth the difference of $150 to $200 (depending on where you bought it from), what with extra power per channel, support for an active subwoofer, iPod dock (if that's what you need) and better speakers. The extra HDMI input should also be useful, since the 3 on the 3300 isn't nearly enough.

I can also see why stores don't want to sell 5.1 systems, since people are buying into the 7.1 hype and many just aren't looking at 5.1 systems anymore (and retailers don't want to carry additional stock that takes up floorspace, so any excuse will do).

[drfsupercenter]

Hmm, well regardless we have the 7.1 system.

So far I haven't been very impressed - I have all the speakers plugged in but it simply refuses to use all 7 unless I force it to mono or something... I used my Toy Story 2 Blu-Ray to do audio test, the left and right were reversed, despite being plugged in correctly...
I also can't figure out how to use the component inputs. I got the PS3 and the cable box to show up fine via HDMI (oddly it doesn't upscale, even though supposedly that receiver will), but I've pressed all the buttons several times and my Wii won't show up. (It's plugged into the first component input)

I'll have to fiddle with it more later, some of my speakers don't even turn on now, I need to get longer speaker wire since we have them kinda far away. Does anybody know of a good tool to optimize surround sound setups? (like, that'll help with volume leveling, etc)

[admin]

That Toy Story 2 Blu-ray only has 5.1 audio (DTS-HD MA). There are Spanish and French 5.1 EX tracks which may give you 6.1/7.1 channels on the same disc. This is what was discussed earlier in this thread, that many HD audio tracks are still very much 5.1 tracks. You can get a list of Blu-ray movies with 7.1 audio using the filter function here:

http://www.blu-raystats.com/Stats/TechStats.php

According to their stats, only around 7% of discs (around 166 titles) have 7.1 audio.

The receiver should have settings to allow you to reverse L/R, if not, then check your PS3 settings. The receiver may also have some kind of built in level test, I'm not sure.

[UncasMS]

since you wont find that many titles with real 7.1 your best bet is the so called surround PLIIz Movie mode with the Onkyo receiver

this dsp mode sounds best imho and takes you as close to real 7.1 as you could get - give it a try

and of course one questions remains: HOW exactly does the speaker setup look like now; where and how did you place them?

surround bach channels should ideally be placed behind the listening postion like depicted here: