TMPGEnc AVI-VCD Conversions Truncated/Cropped by Nero

[Onieros]

Aloha,

I have tried a number of variations on a theme using TMPGEnc to encode AVI files to MPG-1 format...and I have been encountering a consistent problem. After encoding AVI to MPG, I use Nero to burn the video file to a Video 1 CD. However, Nero seems 'trims' the MPG files as it queues them up for the CD write. For example, a 445Meg MPG file is 'read' by Nero as 410Meg. Consequently, the end product is a VCD with significant truncation, particularly in the vertical range (a lot gets trimmed off the top and bottom). This does not bode well for videos with subtitles, as some of the subtitles wind up be 'chopped' in mid-letter (causing a confusion between p's and q's). Fortunately, I know enough Chinese, Japanese, etc to rough it through...but it's still irritating.

So far, I have been experimenting with different aspects and settings. Using a VGA aspect, I wind up with cropping. Using an NTSC 4:3 aspect, following the guidelines at Nicky Page's Digital Solutions and the DivX Digest.com "DivX to VCD Conversion Guide" doesn't work either. I have burned a number of VCDs to test these variants, changing factors such as centering, aspect ratio, edge trim, etc.

Usually, when I encode 1:1 VGA with high quality motion search settings, my finished MPG file winds up being cropped (missing 5% from the top and bottom). When I playback in WM 6 or 7 prior to burning, the entire MPG file displays fine, without any truncation of image. But when I burn using Nero, and then playback the VCD on my computer using WM 6/7, the top and bottom are truncated. So the problem either is with Nero, or in my encoding settings.

I would be grateful if anyone else on the forum who has encountered this problem could critique my encode settings or reply with settings that have been proven to work in this given situation. I've tried about a dozen settings, and at 1 CD and six-eight hours encoding time per 'experiment', I'm running out of patience...

Thanks in advance for your help

[setarip]

1) Are you properly using TMPGEnc to convert the .AVI to a conforming (NTSC 352x240, PAL 352x288) MPEG1-VideoCD - or are you inadvertently converting to "plain vanilla" MPEG1?

2) Are you properly using NERO to ONLY burn as VCD, or are you inadvertently allowing NERO to CONVERT the file to VideoCD format (Not necessary if you properly created the file under TMPGEnc) and burn it?

[Onieros]

Aloha Setarip

Thanks for the quick reply! I seem to have a workable solution to my dilemma. But first, I'll reply to your questions...

1. I've tried both VGA 1:1 and NTSC 4:3 (352x240) settings in TMPGEnc. With the VGA, there is cropping along the edges. With NTSC, there is frame overlap, for lack of a better term...the video isn't square to the screen, so the 'edge' of the video isn't on the edge of the TV, it's somewhere in the middle (it looks like a film strip when it goes off track). I tried several other NTSC 4:3 settings; in several cases, the video was off-center or it didn't fill the screen of the TV. I've also experimented with the source file settings, using 1:1 and 4:3. Setting the source to 4:3 creates an MPG that is compressed in the horizontal, but is the same in the vertical, so I still have the truncation/cropping of the top and bottom of the video.
I have a Toshiba DVD player, btw.

2. No, I am not using Nero to re-convert the MPG files. With Nero, I select Video 1, drag-n-drop the MPG and then it analyzes the file. I'm not using Nero to convert the MPG as far as I know. It spends 30 secs or so analyzing the MPG and then assigns it a track in the "New Video" window. I've converted AVI to VCD under Nero, and the quality isn't as good as TMPGEnc.

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What I have done so far is to split the vid file into a one minute segment, so that I can convert with TMPGEnc in 5-7 mins instead of 5 hours for an entire OAV. This way, I was able to load a VCD with a bunch of variant encode settings (maybe 10 or so variants) and burn it, so I could 'window shop' them and see which conversion schema seemed to work best on my player. I left one AVI file 'as is', so I could get a comparison once Nero converted it before burning...

Here's a comparison chart of some settings I tried:

Size: 1:1 320x240, Source: 1:1 320x240, Video Arrange: Full Screen----frame overlap and cropping

Size: 4:3 352x240, Source: 1:1 320x240, Video Arrange: Full Screen----Cropping off all sides, especially top and bottom

Size: 4:3 352x240, Source: 1:1, Video Arrange: Center--(custom size 352x232)----slightly compressed vertical video, slight cropping on top and bottom, moderate cropping on sides

Size: 4:3 352x240, Source: 1:1, Video Arrange: Center--(custom size 352x224)----slightly compressed horizontal & vertical video, slight cropping on top and bottom, moderate cropping on sides

Size: 4:3 352X240, Source: 3:4 320x240, Video Arrange: Full Screen----Compressed horizontal video, cropping on top and bottom, black space on either side.

Size: 4:3 352x240, Source: 3:4 320x240, Video Arrange: Center----Compressed horizontal video, cropping on top and bottom

Size: 4:3 352x240, Source: 3:4 320x240, Video Arrange: Center--(custom size 352x240)----Cropping on all sides

Size: 4:3 352x240, Source: 3:4, Video Arrange: Center custom size 352x232)----Slightly compressed horizontal & vertical video, cropping on top and bottom

Size: 4:3 352x240, Source: 3:4, Video Arrange: Center custom size 352x224)----Slightly compressed horizontal & vertical video, cropping on top and bottom

Size: 4:3 352x232, Source: 3:4 320x240, Video Arrange: Center----Slightly compressed horizontal video, cropping on top and bottom

Size: 4:3 352x232, Source: 3:4, Video Arrange: Center--(custom size 352x232)----slightly compressed horizontal & vertical video, cropping on top and bottom

Nero Conversion----Loaded the segment AVI file, Nero converted it, resulting video had cropping on all edges.


Conclusions: The best results were obtained by using the NTSC standard 4:3 ratio with the size set as 352x240 in the Video tab settings, plus some tweaks in TMPGEnc's advanced settings tab.

I used the "advanced settings" to select an appropriate custom size and center it within the 352x240 frame. By selecting a source aspect ratio of either 1:1 or 4:3, and then selecting a video arrange method using "Center (custom size)", I was able to resize the encode so that what was truncated by Nero/my DVD player (I know not which) is already 'cropped' within the encode itself. In simpler terms, the black 'non-image' part of the encode is cropped during play, since the actual 'image' part of the encode was 'shrunk' to a smaller size.

The result: if I use a custom setting in the "video arrange method" of 352x224 (has to be divisible by 4), I wind up with an encode with a slight compression of the vertical aspect of the image. When I play it, the portions of the image on the side and top-bottom (which are rendered as non-video black) are cropped. So none of the actual video image is cropped, only the blackstriping on the periphery resulting from the resizing.

I'll have to play around with the custom settings so that I get the right settings down pat. Setting it at 352x224 still causes some cropping of the sides, so I may have to adjust it to 340x224. In any case, a few more variations and I'll have a workable solution to my problem.

Once again, thanks for your reply.

Onieros
Resizing the image in the "Video Arrange Method" options in the "Advanced Options" tab (using the Center (custom size) option) allows me to create a 'picture within a picture', so that when the player plays the finished VCD, the only parts that are truncated are "non video information".

I hope this helps...I may have answered my own question.

[setarip]

"Once again, thanks for your reply."

My pleasure ;>}


By the way, the following is the procedure I use to consistently produce compliant VCDs:

1) Load .AVI file into TMPGEnc
2) Set to "System Video and Audio" (lower right side)
3) Click on "Setting" radio button
4) Click on "System" tab, change mode to "MPEG1-VideoCD" (from default of "MPEG1")
5) Click on "Advanced" tab, change "Video arrange method" to "Center (Custom Size"), change dimensions to 352x288 or 352x240
6) Change "Source aspect ratio" to either "4:3 525 line (NTSC 704x480)", "4:3 525 line (NTSC)", or "16:9 525 line (NTSC)" - If you're in the PAL world choose either of the two similar PAL settings instead
7) Under the "Video" tab, change the dimensions to 352x288 or 352x240 (Note: "Video" tab mode of "MPEG1" is okay) - set "Motion Search Precision" to "Normal Quality". Change the "Aspect Ratio" to match, as closely as possible, the "Source Aspect Ratio" you set under the "Advanced" tab.
8) Change "Rate Control Mode" to "Automatic VBR (CQ_VBR)
9) Under the "Audio" tab, set to 44,100 224Kbps
10) Press "Start"

Note that if your video runs longer than 60 minutes, you'll have to subsequently split your VCD-MPG file in two. This too can be easily and precisely accomplished using TMPGEnc. Under the "Files" dropdown menu, click on "MPEG Tools" and select the "Merge & Cut" tab. Once again, make sure to change the mode to "MPEG1-Video CD". Load your file and enter a new (.MPG) name in the "Output file" box. Then doubleclick on the ORIGINAL file's name in the window, which will bring you to the cutting area. Select your desired start and end points for the first half, click on "Okay" which will bring you back to the first window and generate (in a sequence of three automated steps) the first new file. To create the second new file, repeat the steps starting with "Then doubleclick on the ORIGINAL..." (be extra patient with the second half, as the program has to do more seeking to establish the beginning of the new file).

Use a burning program, such as NERO to burn your CD-R or R/W CD as a VCD (DON'T ask NERO to format the file as a VCD, since you've already accomplished this!)