Test your IQ

[rsquirell]

Let me give you some insight on the Pentagon bidding practices that my Dad was personally involved with. In 1960 Boeing had made every improvement that could have been done on the B-52...and to keep their hands in the government contract side of the business they decided to make an all-out effort to win a fighter contract (they hadn't built one since the '30's.) The Air Force and the Navy offered a proposal to bid on Fighter/Bomber that both branches could use (kill two birds with one stone). Boeing hired the best engineers away from Northrup, NorthAmerican, MacDac and Grumman and spared no expense to meet the deadline for the proposal. The only competitor was General Dynamics...and the Boeing plane could fly higher, faster, farther, carry a heavier payload, and had swingwing technology for carrier use...AND was the cheapest bid. General Dynamics got the contract. William Allen, President of Boeing, personally flew to Washington and saw McNamarrow (JFK's Secty of Defense)...and came home...he could have seen JFK...but he was told it was JFK that had over-ruled everybody, and gave the contract to General Dynamics. Jackies former lover was the chief attorney for the Wall Street Law firm which represented GD...and the GD facilities were in Ft. Worth, Tx. Both Jackie and LBJ had lobbied JFK heavily. The TFX (later named F-111) was too heavy on the drawing board to operate off carriers...so the NAVY had to cancel it's order of 110 aircraft...and due to the terms of the bid...USAF had to accept the planes the Navy couldn't use...and USAF didn't want. Think that's farfetched? There are those that say if Madame Diem wasn't such a good piece of tail JFK wouldn't have sent 5thSFG to VietNam. Anyway...Boeing had to eat all those R&D costs...and concentrated on the commercial jet market.

[rsquirell]

Oh...and the "public airways" didn't come about by funding...they just exist...and the Fed expanded its reach by taxing those who use them...and telling people who could or couldn't use them. A perfect argument against socialism.

[ormonde]

"Boeing had to eat all those R&D costs...and concentrated on the commercial jet market."

Well yeah, but as they say........."That's Politics" (its like if you were passed up for a promotion, or you got fired from a cushy job because someone else was better in the bedroom than you) if that is true what you described. It is amazing the effects a scandal can have. But General Dynamics is an example of another "Publicly Subsidized" > "Privately Owned" corporation. The way the money is allocated is the same process. It's done through the tax system. (The public's money)

"Oh...and the "public airways" didn't come about by funding...they just exist"

That's true, I meant that to say "The Infrastructure" the cost of that. (Again-public pays)

"And the Fed expanded its reach by taxing those who use them...and telling people who could or couldn't use them. A perfect argument against socialism."

You have admitted by your own statement that they are "Our" airwaves. Taxing them doesn't give the few mega-media corporations (Clear Channel; Time Warner; NewsCorp) the right to "Own" the airwaves. The FCC should be seen as "Our" real estate agent but it has given away since the 1927 Radio Act, to radio and TV stations that control what is said on their side of the spectrum and pay "Us" no rent. We are the "Landlords" of the airways, and they pay us no rent.

[rsquirell]

Point: business pays its own R&D costs on spec...betting it'll be rewarded by winding up with a product that'll make back those costs and return a profit...it's a gamble...a "risk'...and doesn't always pay off...but when the risk takers lose the government usually doesn't bail them out...unless you happen to be Chrysler...that's free enterprise. My statement on airways was stupid...there is limited space...the government grabs what they need for national security, and the limited bandwidth allocated to the private sector has to be allocated so signals don't get crossed up.

[ormonde]

"Point: business pays its own R&D costs on spec...betting it'll be rewarded by winding up with a product that'll make back those costs and return a profit...it's a gamble...a "risk'...and doesn't always pay off...but when the risk takers lose the government usually doesn't bail them out..."

What?? Point: (an analogy) The principle of really existing "Free Market Theory" is: free markets are fine for you, but not for me. So you (whoever you may be) have to be subjected to responsibility and "Market Discipline" or "Tough Love" as it is sometimes called. But me....I need the "Nanny State" to protect me from market discipline so I can rant and rave about the marvels of the free market while I'm getting properly subsidized and defended by everyone else through the "Nanny State". It also has to be "Risk Free" so I'm perfectly willing to make profits but I don't want to take risks. If anything goes wrong, you bail me out. This describes effectively exactly how it all works. So say, if third world debt gets out of control, you socialize it (it's not the problem of the banks that made the money, right?). When the S & Ls collapsed-same thing-the public bails them out. When American Investment firms got into trouble because the Mexican "bubble" burst, you bail out Goldman Sachs. How about the airlines shortly after 9/11? Another government bailout (with our money). I can go on and on...........

[rsquirell]

When it's more attractive for people to work for the government in a nice secure job without having to take a risk, then EVERYBODY tries to get one of those coveted do-nothing high-paying Fed jobs. I swear, I think that's where this country is, right now. In order to have those nice secure Fed jobs you have to bleed the people who are busting their tails, risking they may not make a dime for all their effort...and, in order to justify your existance you dream up a ton of restrictions and forms to saddle us down with so we have to spend half our time filling out paperwork so you can have something to do by going over it. I'm telling you...there IS a "workers of the world unite" revolution going on right now before your very eyes...and us workers are telling you government employees to go to Hades and we're voting for Bush. AND we REALLY resent you taking OUR money, telling us WE're bad people...and spouting your ANTIAMERICAN HATE SPEECH in our faces. We're paying you to represent us, and for the most part you haven't...so find a job...you Clinton appointee...we're coming to take yours...or eliminate it.

[Quality's Proof]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rsquirell


[B]Agreed... Although a product of Locke's enlightenment,


The "Framers" were very paranoid someone might take over and set up a dictatorship.


Hhmmm......."Locke" wasn't enlightened. Illumination is not enlightenment. Illumination is as logic on a rampage, the crafting with and of things "believed". Look at one of my first (or the first posting) on this thread, if you want to see some words of enlightenment.



The framers being "paranoid" ? Well, paranoia, does mean especially suspicious, and the framers did not trust each other, nor did they trust others, neither at that time nor in their future. They did, though, understand some basic things about royalty, the other greedy, religion, and plotters/planners. Nowadays, people tend to view such men of understanding and vision as "looney tunes". Hhmmm, so the "framers", were "lunatic" ? ! What the framers suspected feared, did come to pass, both by their and others schemes.

[Quality's Proof]

Originally posted by Quality's Proof




What is more superstitious than self, which is the ego.

The foolishness of wisdom is superstition, also, is it not?

Aahhh.......There it is !

[rsquirell]

LOL...and a couple of lame posts from quality to hide my rant from the curious. Look...we have 8 months to go before anyone, besides us, starts to even pay attention to the election...so polls at this point don't mean anything. Raegan was 20 points down to Ducockus at this point (and you remember the landslide he won with). I want to personally thank all you democrats for giving us the perfect vehicle for repeating that election...and giving us at least a 60 vote majority in the senate. I'm warning you (you won't listen...but I'm warning you anyway) that your Anti-American Pro-Communist rhetoric doesn't fly with the American people. A President's first mid-term election usually benefits the opposition party ( in Clinton's the Dems lost the House for the first time in 50 years) but in the last mid-term the Republicans won back the senate and increased their house membership. During the next 7 months we're going to be laying the foundation to absolutely blow you out. We're going to start by disclosing...a little at a time...the TRUE war-time experiences of your War Hero ( think it won't matter? Read "Stolen Valor" and find out how resentful us vets are that we've been portrayed as a bunch of loser, drugged out flunkies...because a bunch of maggot-infested lowlifes have been portraying themselves as vets...talking about all the war crimes they've committed...and for the most part they not only weren't in Viet Nam...they weren't even in the military. These are the guys Hanoi Jane and John Kerry used when they testified in the senate hearings in 1970...we're going to be playing Kerry's testimony over and over...while disclosing his phoney war record. I ran 30 missions in Nam and didn't get a single medal...but I did more on any of them than Kerry did when he put himself in for a Silver Star. In my unit you usually didn't get medals unless you screwed up, got compromised, and wound up with a firefight you could talk about.) Nobody's seen John Kerry in combat footage...but we'll be showing video of his testimony and demonstration footage with Hanoi Jane. Mr "How dare you impugn my patriotism" Kerry is going to be impugned. Imagine this ad: we run footage of Kerry ranting about the Benedict Arnold CEO's shipping our jobs overseas...the moderator breaks in "Did you know that Benedict Arnold was one of the greatest war heroes in American history...he almost single-handedly turned the rout at Saratoga into the biggest single victory of the entire revolutionary war. But it was his actions afterwards that forever made his name synonomous with Traitor" while a tape with him and Hanoi Jane is running in the background. "Did you know that 2/3 of Kerry's own Heinz Ketchup plants is overseas using foreigners who've taken your jobs "(showing some natives walking out of a plant)"Who do you think is the Benedict Arnold?"

[ormonde]

"AND we REALLY resent you taking OUR money, telling us WE're bad people...and spouting your ANTIAMERICAN HATE SPEECH in our faces."

See, that's one of the main problems. With the current political climate the way it is, it's all about who is "Anti-American" or "Unpatriotic", and both sides "Finger pointing" at each other. The media pushes this kind of vitriolic behavior with a passion. People should be "UNITED" on basic issues, not "DIVIDED". Just earlier today, on CNN, it was almost as if they were praising the fact that the new political "Attack" Ads had now been launched so early in the campaign. We need to get beyond this. The voters, I believe, do not want to see this kind of thing anymore deep down. They portray this as an ugly sporting event (much like they did with the run-up to the Iraq invasion). When you strip all the bull**it away, people everywhere wants basically the same things: 1. To be able to provide for themselves and their family. 2. To live in peace. 3. To maintain good health, and to have an opportunity to have fundamental medical care provided. Now you can say I'm a Communist, a Socialist, a Stalinist, a Democrat or whatever, but I feel these things are basic things that people in this country, and all over the world for that matter strive for. It's not so much about competition, (although a little competition is not a bad thing) It's about people living in peace and not in "FEAR", and having a sense of economic security, instead of seeing their jobs fleeing overseas to seek out the cheaper labor. And I'm not talking about "FED" jobs; I'm talking about "JOBS" period. I think it's a misnomer that "Everybody" is out to make a "Gazillion" dollars and just say screw everybody else. I think deep down people just want to be fairly well off in the sense that they can support their families comfortably. (The middle class?). I think if you were to do a comprehensive survey and you asked people:

A. You could have millions of dollars, but you have endure war, terror, sickness, hate, fear, social and racial injustice, and intense competition to have it.

"OR"

B. You could have a life where you will always be able to provide nicely for yourselves and you family and "NOT" have to endure war, terror, sickness, hate, fear, social and racial injustice, and intense competition to have it. Which one do you think "Most" people would choose? I know which one I would choose.

BTW-I don't think there was one word in my last post that indicated "ANTIAMERICAN HATE SPEECH"

[Quality's Proof]

And, I am reminded of the televised George Bush at a warehouse where the boxes were "labeled" : Made In USA, and finding, later , they were actually Made In CHINA ! When found out : Bush's team laid that lie on an "over-zealous" "intern" staffer.

Hell, we all know Reagan/Bush, Sr., sent the real jobs to Japan.......and like Father : like son

Clinton only finished the " plan ", by sending the rest of the jobs to China.


Rsquirell, what do you mean a couple of lame posts by me ?

Answer what that last post meant.......if you can and will !

Republicans are for the monied, and if you work for yourself, all you can expect, is only a crumb from their : "Big Business" tax cut "table", and which really, is not worth the bother. Really, it's not worth selling yourself so cheaply. I'm reminded of the red-neck Southern voters, at their minimum wage jobs, supporting republican presidents, and I'm reminded of the crack whores, whom get "stiffed" by their "patrons". Hell, at least get rich, before you sell-out for less "rich-man's taxes".

The republican party and their big sponsors are " pro - royalty " : ipso de facto.

Finally, it's the middle class (still) and the working poor whom pay for everything. The rich produce nothing but paperwork. And laws are passed for to hire more office workers in every sector, especially government hiring. That is the cause of the " law " : $'s profit, whether it be a "planned" business theft, or jobs for their "friends".

[Quality's Proof]

Rsquirell,

For a republican president, total federal employee amount has significantly increased and there has been extreme jumps in further planned fed jobs. Fed deficit has grown by leaps and bounds with Bush asking for more than congress wants to spend. We live in a more unsafe world now than 4 years ago, etc.. War is profit.

Republicans prefer wars to last many years as they make more money profits. How many 100's of BillionS'$ of Social Security fund did the old bush steal to bail out business (failed S & L's) during that other war with Iraq, and how many 100'S of BillionS'$ of Social Security funds did George W. steal during the aftermath of 9/11?

This war-mongering is planned, and as its planned, it is murder, and those whom support murderers, are what? What does the government say in their laws about such? What do the feds say about helping terror(ists), by buying drugs (but interestingly, not oil !)? What does religion say about supporting murderers?

George W.Bush is a pathetic, murdering liar, as was / is his dad. This latest war is because of economics, as were all the other wars. Obvious, it is, that George W., and George, Sr. do not believe in God, nor, in a hereafter. Since they and the US break the LAW, then the LAW will break them........Cause and Effect.

[rsquirell]

I'm probably going to have to find a job and pay some bills...the market hasn't come back the way I want...so I just laid a heavy rap on you to show you what to expect 6 months from now when the election starts to get close. Don't take anything personal, ormonde...its all strategizing...I've been up against the REAL communists...in the USSR...you american milque toast varient are a piece of cake. I posted that to get your reaction. No...I don't blame you for wanting to stretch your "safety net" into a hammock and getting someone else to work his tail off to provide yourself with a comfortable living. It's perfectly understandable. Keep up the rants guys...we need all the ammo we can get.

[ormonde]

"This latest war is because of economics, as were all the other wars."

You can't have a "War on Terror" when the number 1 terrorist state is heading it up.

" Since they and the US break the LAW, then the LAW will break them........Cause and Effect."

So that's it.........We either change directions, or we will extinguish ourselves as a species.

[ormonde]

"Don't take anything personal, ormonde...its all strategizing...I've been up against the REAL communists"

I don't take it personal. Believe me, I've been called "Much Worse". "Also, I would not even classify myself as a "FAKE" communist. We are all human beings and deep down (if we're honest) strive for the things I stated in my 2nd to last post.

"I don't blame you for wanting to stretch your "safety net" into a hammock and getting someone else to work his tail off to provide yourself with a comfortable living. "

I've worked hard almost all my life-still are!