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Last edited by rdkapp; 26 Feb 2007, 05:20 PM. -
Well, that's very annoying. According to PgcEdit, the DVD is too big. When it is not too big, but the layer break cannot be placed correctly, PgcEdit gives you additional information, useful to determine how much the DVD must be shrinked. In this case, the only meaningful information is the message in the first dialog: the capacity of a DVD-9 is exceeded by 740.2 MB. You know therefore that you will have to shrink the DVD to gain at least that space. However, it's certainly not sufficient, as you still have to make enough room to let ImgBurn offset the files to align the layer break correctly.
IMO, according to the sizes of side 1 and 2 and the menus, you have to regain at least ~850MB to be able to place the layer break at the beginning of cell 12 (the original split point between sides.) However, as the DVD is encoded in variable bit rate, it is not possible to know exactly how much data must be removed. For safety, I suggest removing around 1GB.
Do you know how to remove precisely 1GB with Shrink?
BTW, you have still 4 audio streams, including a DTS stream in the main movie. You can probably regain almost 1GB by keeping only the first AC3 audio track. If you do that, you might want to edit the Audio Setup menu, but you can do that later, on the Shrinked DVD.Comment
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r0lZ, I just want to clarify a few things for myself. Here's what DVD Shrink shows about my reauthored movie:
Specifically, it shows that the movie is 7,960 MB. I realize that this is factored by 1,024. I'm not sure what 7,960 MB equates to after factoring, but compressing or removing 1 GB sounds like a significant amount when we're talking about an 8.5 GB DVD. Does it sound out of line to you?
For some reason, I thought the DTS audio stream was already gone. Maybe I thought that because when I load the movie in Shrink, it shows up unticked. And since it's unticked, the size (7,960 MB) shown would only be accurate after processing. The current actual size of the movie (measured by Shrink) would be around 8,875 MB, assuming the DTS is actually still there taking up 915 MB of space. Right? If so, what's the best way to remove the DTS audio stream? Do I disable it in PgcEditor, or can I just leave it unticked, along with the French subtitles, and process it through Shrink? Do you think 916 MB is enough? If necessary, I can also remove the French audio stream, which will provide another 464 MB, according to Shrink.
OTOH, I did want to keep the Director's cut audio track (I enjoy listening to it sometimes), but I just realized that it may not be accessible with a DVD player, because it's part of the Special Features menu that has been deactivated. I wonder if the menu button of the DTS audio stream (once removed) can be changed to link to and activate the Director's cut audio track? If so, I can then edit the picture accordingly. Please let me know if I can do this. I've still got the original disc 1 movie on my hard drive, in order to check the command links to the Director's cut audio. It seems like it wouldn't be that difficult to change the command link of the button, but obviously, I don't know for sure. The DTS audio stream is in VTS 1, while the Director's cut audio stream is in VTS 2. I don't know if that presents a problem, but I think I would need your help, if it can be done.
PS - I think the audio is about the only thing we haven't messed with yet, so I guess it's time to mess with it.
Last edited by rdkapp; 27 Feb 2007, 08:44 AM.Comment
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The computations I've made are based on the current content of your DVD, including the DTS track.
Also, if you haven't changed the default values in PgcEdit, it assumes that a DVD+R DL is 4,173,824 sectors long. Since one sector is 2KB, the real size of the media is 4,173,824 * 2 / 1024 = 8152MB, or 7.96 GB. The manufacturers announce a size of 8.5GB for a DVD+R DL, but they count one GB as 1,000,000,000 bytes, instead of 1024x1024x1024 bytes. You cannot trust them!
So, if the total size of the compilation is 8,875 MB, it cannot fit on the media. Luckily, removing the DTS track is sufficient to regain 915MB, almost what I've suggested. Since we cannot know exactly how much space we must leave free for the LB, it might be enough or not. Therefore, yes, I suggest you use Shrink to remove the DTS track, without compressing the video. We will be able to try ImgBurn to see if he can find a layer break cell. If it's not enough, we will need to remove another track (french or director comments) or compress the video a little bit, and process the whole DVD through Shrink again.
Note that removing a track (audio or subpic) with Shrink can cause problems if its Logical Remapping Of Enabled Streams option is ON. The DVDShrink plugin for PgcEdit has a function to check if it is safe to use this option for the current DVD. For this DVD, it's NOT safe. So, be sure to turn that option OFF before processing the DVD.
It is always possible (but it might be necessary to remove some PUOs) to select an audio or subpic track with the remote, without having to go to the Audio/Subpic menu of the DVD. In this case, it is also possible (and easy) to replace the DTS track by the director comments. I'll explain how later...
Since the audio menu is also a still picture, it is even possible to edit the menu background and replace it with VB if you wish. You know how to do that now!
So, go on, and remove the DTS track. Try to build the compilation in ImgBurn to see if it finds a layer break cell. If it's not enough, remove another track and shrink again. Do not burn, as we still need to modify the streams for the audio menu...
I hope my explanations are OK, as I'm still ill and my brain is in holidays!
Last edited by r0lZ; 27 Feb 2007, 09:53 PM.Comment
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r0lZ, I was a little confused by the statement "The DVDShrink plugin for PgcEdit." So, is the setting in Shrink (shown below in the screenshot) what you're talking about? And, if so, do I leave it unticked before processing in Shrink? I just want to be sure.
As soon as I'm sure I've got the right setting above, I'll get busy.
Geez, I hope you get better soon.
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Yes. it's the right setting.Comment
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OK r0lZ, through Shrink, I removed the DTS audio stream and French (forced) subtitles, and it was reduced down to 7,959 MB (in Shrink), but ImgBurn was still unable to determine a layer break. So, for grins, I loaded the shrinked movie in PgcEdit, and immediately received this warning:
I'm sure that the warning is due to the removal of the DTS audio stream, but I thought I'd let you see it anyway. I didn't fix it, because I knew that I was going to try to remove the French audio stream, and we were going to be messing with the audio tracks anyway.
While in PgcEdit, I clicked on the burn icon and then OK, as you've previously instructed and received the following dialog:
So, I went back to Shrink and also removed the French audio stream, which pared the movie down to 7,494 MB (in Shrink). When I loaded that in ImgBurn, it found a layer break point at chapter 12, cell 13, but it is only rated as "Good," with a yellow star. Will that suffice, or am I striving for a "Very Good" or "Excellent" rating? Just curious.
I await your instructions on modifying the audio streams.Comment
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The "number of subpic streams" warning is only... a warning! It indicates that a subpic stream has been removed, but is still referenced in a table. I suppose it's because you have removed the french subpics. It is recommended to answer yes to remove the reference in the table.
Using cell 13 (chapter 12) as the layer break point is the best you can hope! It's exactly where the original DVD was split! ImgBurn rated it as Good because the VOB ID changes at that cell. Another cell would produce only an Average rate.
So, you don't need to compress the video. Obviously, that's a good point!
Now, you want to be able to select the director comments track from the regular audio menu. The first thing to do is to edit the menu background to display "Director Comments" instead of the original "English DTS" message. You can also, of course, remove the "French" button, since you don't need it any more. You know already how to do that. You have to save the background as a BMP, then edit the BMP, and replace it using VobBlanker's Still function. It might be more difficult to edit the background of this menu, as it is not simple, but that's your problem!
Take care: have a look at the highlight of the button with a software player, and try to remember where it is exactly. Place the "Director Comments" string at the right position, so that it is not covered by the highlight, and it is correctly aligned.
You have also to remap the original director comments stream so that it occupies now the place of the DTS stream.
Usually, it is necessary to modify one or several VM commands to select the right stream when the user selects the menu button. This method can be very difficult to implement, as it is not always easy to determine which commands must be changed.
But, in this case, it is simpler to replace the DTS stream by the comments. Big advantage: it is not necessary to edit the VM commands.- Right-click on the main movie PGC and select "Domain Stream Attributes".
- Click on the "AC3 (2 channels)" button in the director comments row (Audio 3), then click on "Copy" and "OK".
- Now, click on "DTS (6 channels)" of the DTS track (Audio 1), then Paste and OK.
- Change the "normal" type to "director comments". Click OK.
- We need also to change the stream assignments in all PGCs of the title domain. (Here, there is only one PGC in the domain, so that's easy.)
- Double-click on the main movie PGC. In the PGC Editor, click on the second audio stream button (Audio 1) and change the 1 to 3. (3 is the number that is used in the 4th stream, the director comments, so we copy it.)
- Click Set, then OK. That's all.
Of course, streams 2 and 3 are no longer necessary, as you have removed the french track (#2), and copied the last track (#3) in the second position (#1.) You can therefore delete those useless and confusing tracks. Return to the Domain Stream Attributes editor, and tick the delete checkboxes fo the last two audio streams. If "Subpic 1 (fr, forced)" is still present, you can delete it also. Accept. (You don't need to take care at the SPRM warning displayed by PgcEdit.)
Since there is no need any more for the French audio button, you can hide it using the Menu Editor. Just select it, and use "Hide Button -> Jump to non-deleted button".
Save and test.
You should be ready to burn your DVD.Last edited by r0lZ; 28 Feb 2007, 10:21 PM.Comment
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As suggested, I first edited the background of the button with Photoshop. It wasn't that difficult. Just a little time consuming. Overall it took about 30 minutes, much of which was spent trying to match the font. Apparently I don't have a very good font match on my computer, but I'm not going to download a better match for $30, so the one I picked will have to do. Initially, I did not mess with the color schemes and when I tested the menu, the highlight still showed the original "English DTS" text. So, I went in and modified the color schemes as you had previously suggested (0 selected, 4 applied, & 10 opacity) and I made the button smaller so that the yellow highlight wasn't so big. Everything went surprisingly smooth.Now, you want to be able to select the director comments track from the regular audio menu. The first thing to do is to edit the menu background to display "Director Comments" instead of the original "English DTS" message. You can also, of course, remove the "French" button, since you don't need it any more. You know already how to do that. You have to save the background as a BMP, then edit the BMP, and replace it using VobBlanker's Still function. It might be more difficult to edit the background of this menu, as it is not simple, but that's your problem!
Take care: have a look at the highlight of the button with a software player, and try to remember where it is exactly. Place the "Director Comments" string at the right position, so that it is not covered by the highlight, and it is correctly aligned.
First, with regard to your 6th bullet point, when you say "change the 1 to 3," it actually said "0;" I think because I had already removed the DTS audio stream in Shrink (educated guess on my part here). Anyway, I changed it to 3. Second, unfortunately, the DTS button in the first audio menu, which has been replaced by the Director's comments (see 1st screenshot below), links to another menu page (PGC 2, program 2, cell 2) (see 2nd screenshot below):
If I select the DTS button, as suggested on the 2nd menu, it does play the movie with the Director's comments, however, is there any way to bypass the second menu? I would guess that I could deactivate the second menu and copy the link command for the "DTS button" into the "Director's Cut" button in the 1st menu. Will that work?
Is the following screenshot the SPRM warning? Since you said not to worry about the SPRM warning, I clicked on "no." Was that correct? If not tell me how to get back to that point, because the warning is not showing anymore.
almost
Last edited by rdkapp; 1 Mar 2007, 04:19 AM.Comment
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That's right! Shrink has probably changed that when it has stripped the DTS track. Anyway, you have to copy the value of the commentary track at the position of the DTS track.
It's a simple method, that might work or not. In this case, it's a little bit more difficult. The command of the original DTS button (on page 1) isand the command of the DTS button on page 2 isCode:Set gprm(5) =(mov) 2 ; LinkNextPG, button 1 (1024)
As you can see, the first command sets 2 in GPRM 5, then links to the second page, where the LinkTailPGC command jumps to the post-commands of the PGC. In the post-commands, GPRM 5 is compared with several values. If it is < 99, its value is decreased by one, and that value is used later by the SetSTN command to set the audio stream. The stream used is therefore 2-1=1. That's correct.Code:LinkTailPGC
If you replace the first button command by LinkTailPGC, the nav will jump immediately to the post commands, but GPRM 5 will not have the correct value, and something unpredictable will happen. So, to bypass the second page of the menu, you have to set GPRM 5 to 2 and then LinkTailPGC. The command to use is:(BTW, have a look at the command of the normal english button. Its command is almost the same, except that the value of GPRM 5 is 1, to enable the audio track 0.)Code:[71 01 00 05 00 01 00 0D] Set gprm(5) =(mov) 1 ; LinkTailPGC
Yes, it's that dialog (although it mention the SetSTN commands and not the SPRMs
) You can ignore the warning, as the method we have used is independent of the VM commands. We have only replaced one stream by another one, and modified the button. (I haven't taken into account the additional DTS menu page, but, as you have noticed, it's only a little display problem, as the correct stream was selected.)
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At first it didn't work (the regular English audio stream played), but then I noticed the contradiction between your instruction and the code, which should have readI corrected it and it linked perfectly to the Director's comments.Code:[71 01 00 05 00 01 00 0D] Set gprm(5) =(mov) [B][I][COLOR=red]2[/COLOR][/I][/B] ; LinkTailPGC
Thanks for the instruction.
Now, before I burn, I want to make sure there are no special settings, etc. in ImgBurn that I'm not aware of. First, I selected the best layer break, and I am in "Build" mode. One thing that the guide says that doesn't match, is that in the layer break dialog, mine has a "yes" in the SPLIP column, while the guide says that "No" would be the best option. Maybe that's why my rating is only "good," and not "very good" or "excellent?" Is this a concern?
Also, I've got Verbatim DVD+R DLs rated at 2.4X. My burner is rated at 4X for DVD+R DLs. What speed would you recommend for the best chance of success?
Are there any other settings not covered in the guide that I should check or change? Here's a screenshot of my DVD loaded in ImgBurn:
I'm excited about finally being able to burn this movie. With all the hard work and education, I just want to make sure it has the best chance for success.Comment
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Sorry, there was indeed an error in my copy/paste.
Don't worry for the layer break option. Any cells can be used, as long as you do not use the seamless layer break option. Anyway, as I've said, the original split point between side 1 and 2 is really perfect. (BTW, I don't know what SPLIP means, but IMO, it's related to the seamless layer break method. See this technical discussion for more info.)
IMO, the best write speed is less than the maximum speed of your burner AND less than the maximum speed of your DVD+R. So, I guess that burning at 1x is the best in this case. But I'm not an expert in DL burning (although I have programmed the first app able to do that without problem!) as I prefer usually to split the large DVDs on two single layer media.Comment
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Yes, if you can select 2x.Comment
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r0lZ, I burned at 2X and it made all the way through the burn, but hung at finalizing the session/disc. Since it hung at finalizing, it didn't verify either. It plays in Power DVD on my computer, but not in my stand alone players. I've tried to manually close the session/disc, but it hangs doing that and I have to reboot my computer after several minutes (and a "Not Responding" notice) each time. I've read a couple of posts on point in the ImgBurn forum, but nothing has helped yet. I'm going to post in that forum to see if anyone can help me finalize the disc. Wish me luck. <INPUT onclick="doEmoticon(this.form.body,eList,0);return false;" type=image alt=:hope src="http://pages.sbcglobal.net/sabertooth/emoticons/crossfingers.gif">Comment
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