Trying to backup a flipper to DVD+R DL while retaining menus

[r0lZ]

Well, it is possible to add buttons to go directly to a specific page of the menu, and it is even possible to edit the background image to add the new buttons and change the chapter numbers of side 2, because your menu are not animated. However, the new buttons will have only a basic highlight: a simple colored translucent rectangle over the background.
Note that it's a lot of work, and you need to install muxman (if you don't have it already) and a good image editor (to edit the backgrounds.)

If you want to continue, I'll explain that tomorrow. In the meantime, test carefully the current compilation and do a full backup.

[rdkapp]

However, the new buttons will have only a basic highlight: a simple colored translucent rectangle over the background.

I'm not sure what you are describing here. Do you mean the scene picture from the specific chapter will be changed to a basic highlight, or the button/chapter number?

Note that it's a lot of work, and you need to install muxman (if you don't have it already) and a good image editor (to edit the backgrounds.)

If you want to continue, I'll explain that tomorrow. In the meantime, test carefully the current compilation and do a full backup.

If you haven't figured it out yet, if I'm learning, lots of work doesn't bother me. I'll get Muxman, and as far as image editors, I have IrfanView, XnView, as well as MS Paint, and MS Office Picture Manager. I'm not sure the last one is truly an editor, but which image editor do you recommend? As far as wanting to continue, I'd like to, but since I'm not sure what the new buttons will look like, I may not want to keep them. In the meantime, I'll test and do a full backup.

[Edit] Which version of muxman? Can I use the freeware version (0.15Q)? Or, do I need the Professional version (0.18.2) at $20?

[r0lZ]

We will add several new buttons with the help of VobBlanker and muxman to replace the background, and of PgcEdit to create the navigation stuff. But a real button should have also a specific highlight associated with it. That cannot be done simply, without demuxing and reauthoring everything. Therefore, with PgcEdit, we will create only a basic rectangular highlight for the new button. Don't expect a fancy multicolor highlight. Anyway, it's not important. You will understand what I mean later...

IrfanView and XnView are mainly viewers, and have only very basic editing capabilities. M$ Paint is probably the worst editor ever published! I don't know Office Picture Manager, but given its name, I doubt it's an editor. Some really good editors (but not free) are Adobe Photoshop or Jasc Paint Shop Pro. GIMP has also a good reputation, and is free. Note that editing the background images is not absolutely necessary. It just looks more professional.

The free version of muxman is sufficient. It must be installed, but will be called automatically from VobBlanker. You will not ever notice when it is used!

[rdkapp]

. . . Some really good editors (but not free) are Adobe Photoshop or Jasc Paint Shop Pro. GIMP has also a good reputation, and is free. . . .

The free version of muxman is sufficient. It must be installed, but will be called automatically from VobBlanker. You will not ever notice when it is used!

I forgot that I have Adobe Photoshop 5.0 Limited Edition. It came with my digital camera. I've installed it. Do you think it's sufficient? I've also downloaded muxman, but there is no installation file. It's just an executable (*.exe). I have opened the program, but there's no way to "install" the program.

[r0lZ]

Put muxman.exe in C:\Program Files\Muxman, and launch it again. It should be sufficient. Anyway, if VobBlanker cannot find it when it needs it, it will ask its path interactively.

Photoshop is certainly sufficient (but you might have to learn it a bit... )

Now, let's start editing the menu...

[r0lZ]

Editing the menu backgrounds

Currently, there are 3 or 4 little buttons in each cell to jump respectively to cells 1, 2, 3 and (in the second part of the menu only) to cell 4.
Ideally, you need 7 buttons in each cells to be able to jump to any page of the menu. You have to add 4 buttons in cells 1 to 3, and 3 buttons in cells 4 to 7.
The first thing to do is to draw the buttons on the background, with Photoshop.
This step is not absolutely necessary, but if you don't do it, you will be unable to see the new buttons!
Also, I repeat that this procedure works ONLY with still menus (with or without audio.) You can apply it also on an animated menu, but the animation will be lost, and the menu cells converted to stills.

• Select the menu in PgcEdit and open the preview. Use the slider to select the first cell. Click on the BMP button, and save the image somewhere.
• Repeat for all cells. You should have 7 images.
• Edit the images using Photoshop to add 4 tiny button backgrounds somewhere below button 7 (or 3 button backgrounds below button 8 in cells 4 to 7.) In cells 3 to 7, you can also edit the chapter numbers if you wish. You can place the buttons where you want, but of course, they should not be placed over an existing button. Take also in mind that a part of the image is usually hidden below the border of the TV.
• Save the modified BMPs. (You have to save them in BMP format!) Quit Photoshop.
• Load the DVD in VobBlanker. Tick only "Use input folder" and "Process Menus." Mark all VTS except VTS 1 as "Skip". Mark VTS 1 as "Process".
• Double-click on VTS_01_*.VOB to open the "Menu of VTS 01" window. Untick the "Blank cells without buttons" option.
• Click on the first line in the upper pane, and then double-click on PGC 4 in the lower pane to open the cells list.
• Select the first cell, and click on the "Still" button. Tick "Keep audio".
• Drag and drop the first modified BMP over the window. You should see the modified image in the preview. Click OK.
• Repeat the 2 previous steps for cells 2 to 7.
• When done, click Apply in the Cells list window, then OK, and finally PROCESS!! Verify in the log if there are no errors, and quit VobBlanker.
• Reload the DVD in PgcEdit, and use its menu viewer to verify if all cells have been correctly replaced.

Now, you can see the new buttons, but you are still unable to select them. You have only drawn the button shapes over the background, but not created the real buttons yet. You have to create them with PgcEdit.

[r0lZ]

Creating the menu buttons with PgcEdit

1. Select the first cell in the buttons viewer, and click Edit to open the editor.
2. Since we need a color scheme for the new buttons, find an unused one. Move the "Edit button" slider and watch the color scheme radiobuttons. As you can see, color schemes 1 and 2 are already used. We will therefore use color scheme 3 for the new buttons.
3. Select "Button -> New Button". A new button is created in the upper left corner.
4. Move and resize the button to put it just over the background of the first button you have created with PhotoShop and VobBlanker. Note that you cannot use the X and Width sliders. It's because your menu is in 16:9. In this mode, there are at least two button groups. The button is duplicated in each group, and usually, only the coordinates of the button varie. In this precise case, the X and Width of the button are different in the two groups. You have therefore to select one precise group to be able to edit them. Select group 1, and modify the X and width sliders to position the button correctly. Now, select group 2 and do the same thing. (Note that the background image changes! This is why the coordinates are different.)
   VERY IMPORTANT: When done, return IMMEDIATELY to the pseudo-group called "All". When you work in this group, the changes are applied in both groups at once. If you change, for example, the button command when only a specific group is selected, the command will be changed ONLY in that group! This can lead to serious problems! So, use the group "All" whenever possible.
   
5. Be sure that the "All" pseudo-group is selected, and select color scheme 3.
6. Now, click on the big button with the command, and enter the correct command. For the first new button, it's LinkPGN Program 4, button 1 (1024).
7. Repeat steps 3 to 6 for the other new buttons.
8. Now, click on the "Edit Color Schemes" button. Verify that color scheme 3 is selected, and chose the same color for the 4 "selected button" colors. I suggest color 0 (yellow). Similarly, chose another color for the 4 "activated button" colors, for example color 4 (red.)
9. Change all opacity values to something sufficiently visible over the background (but full opaque is usually not very nice.) I suggest a value around 10.
10. Click OK.
11. Now, your button is created, but you cannot select it with the remote, as the adjacent button links are not yet defined. Select button 7, and be sure to enable the "Show adjacent buttons" option. As you can see, if the user press the up key, the button just above is selected (button 6). With left, the chapter 3 button is selected, and with right, the chapter button 4. Down selects the Main menu button.
    Since you have created the first new button below that button, its Down link should now select the new button rather than the Main Menu button. Therefore, change the Down link of button 7 to point to the first new button (button 13.)
12. Similarly, you have to define the 4 adjacent buttons of the new buttons. For example, the first new button should select button 7 with up, 3 with left, 4 with right, and 8 with down. Of course, the down link of the last new button should select the Main Menu button.
    (Note that the choice of the button links depends of the position of the buttons on the background. You have to set them logically.)
    When a link is equal to the current button number, you cannot use the remote to move in this direction.
13. When all links have been created, verify with the cursor keys that all buttons are reachable, and that the navigation is logical.

Repeat the whole procedure above on cells 2 to 7.
Note that you can copy/paste a button and a whole color scheme with the Edit menu of the menu editor. Again, when pasting a button, be sure to be in the group All! Note that pasting the coordinates of the button works well only for the non-disabled sliders. You will still have to edit the other coordinates manually.

Finally, save and test.

As I have explained before, the new buttons have only basic highlights. This is because the subpic streams (containing the original highlights) have not been edited. Although it's not very nice, it is very difficult and time consuming to edit the subpic stream. Therefore, I'll end the lesson here!

[rdkapp]

The first thing to do is to draw the buttons on the background, with Photoshop.
This step is not absolutely necessary, but if you don't do it, you will be unable to see the new buttons!
Also, I repeat that this procedure works ONLY with still menus (with or without audio.) You can apply it also on an animated menu, but the animation will be lost, and the menu cells converted to stills.

1. Select the menu in PgcEdit and open the preview. Use the slider to select the first cell. Click on the BMP button, and save the image somewhere.
2. Repeat for all cells. You should have 7 images.
3. Edit the images using Photoshop to add 4 tiny button backgrounds somewhere below button 7 (or 3 button backgrounds below button 8 in cells 4 to 7.) In cells 3 to 7, you can also edit the chapter numbers if you wish. You can place the buttons where you want, but of course, they should not be placed over an existing button. Take also in mind that a part of the image is usually hidden below the border of the TV.

From your 2nd post this morning, I've changed your bullet points to numbers for ease of reference. Steps 1 and 2 went fine. For Step 3, when I loaded the BMP images into Photoshop, I did not see buttons (in the PgcEdit sense). For example, cell 1, button 7 in PgcEdit is clearly marked as a button link to cell 3 (Chapters 9-11) and says "9-11." In Photoshop, there is nothing defined as a button, but it does show "9-11." Do I draw a box around "9-11" and copy and paste below it, or is there a different mode I need to be in, or how do I "add a button," and furthermore, how do I "edit the existing chapter numbers?" Obviously, you were right when you said that I needed to learn Photoshop. Can you give me a kick start here with Photoshop? Or, if you think it's easier to use GIMP, I'll get it. Just let me know.

[r0lZ]

As I said, you edit only the background image with Photoshop. Photoshop is not a DVD editor! The buttons definitions and highlights are not in the image. You have to edit the image to show where the button is, so that the user can select if by clicking on it with the mouse, or with the remote. So, edit the image to add the button backgrounds, but do not add rectangles or something else. The final image should look like the original one, except that it should have several additional little buttons drawn on the background.

In PgcEdit, you can see the area occupied by the buttons, but those area are defined in the nav packs of the VOB file, not in the video stream. (BTW, you can click outside a button to hide the button outlines.)
In a real player, the button outlines are not shown, but the highlight (from the subpic stream) is shown over the current button. Again, you cannot edit that with Photoshop.

The chapter numbers to the left of the chapter titles are wrong in cells 4 to 7, as they refer to the original chapters of side 2. I suggested to change them, for coherence. But again, you need to master Photoshop a bit to do that.

I can't help you with Photoshop, as I don't use and know it. I don't know GIMP neither. I use PaintShop Pro, but it is almost as difficult to master than Photoshop, and I use it only to do very simple tasks. Sorry, but the image editors are not my specialty!

Anyway, as I said, the background editing is not absolutely necessary. You can skip this part if you wish. Of course, it will be somewhat strange to have invisible buttons, but you can also edit the background after the next step (the PgcEdit part in my second post.) I suggest you skip the background edition for now. Currently, the more important thing is to learn how to create the real buttons, not how to edit the background.

[rdkapp]

So, edit the image to add the button backgrounds, but do not add rectangles or something else. The final image should look like the original one, except that it should have several additional little buttons drawn on the background.

This is the part I don't understand. Are the new button backgrounds just another image, like an icon, superimposed on top of the existing image? Is it a drawn circle or other shape? I started putting the numbers 12-15, which are the next chapter numbers, but I didn't think that was correct.

[Edit] Is the new button background anything other than the existing background? I tried to copy and paste a small portion of the existing background to the spot where the new buttons will be, and then I brought them in with VobBlanker, but I guess the button was too similar, because I couldn't see them in PgcEdit. Also, I got a little bit of education from this thread and the links set out therein.

In PgcEdit, you can see the area occupied by the buttons, but those area are defined in the nav packs of the VOB file, not in the video stream. (BTW, you can click outside a button to hide the button outlines.)

Sounds like I just need to play around with Photoshop a bit to see what's there in PgcEdit. Maybe that will open my eyes to what I need to do.

I can't help you with Photoshop, as I don't use and know it. I don't know GIMP neither. I use PaintShop Pro, but it is almost as difficult to master than Photoshop, and I use it only to do very simple tasks. Sorry, but the image editors are not my specialty!

I'm not too sure that I need help with the image editors. If I just understood what is meant by "add the button backgrounds," I think I could manage Photoshop.

Anyway, as I said, the background editing is not absolutely necessary. You can skip this part if you wish. Of course, it will be somewhat strange to have invisible buttons, but you can also edit the background after the next step (the PgcEdit part in my second post.) I suggest you skip the background edition for now. Currently, the more important thing is to learn how to create the real buttons, not how to edit the background.

Maybe changing the order of things is the answer. I'll play around with Photoshop, while I wait for your next response and see if I can make some sense of what "button backgrounds" are, and how to "add the button backgrounds," and if I lose patience, I'll move on to create the real buttons.

[r0lZ]

Yes, the animated tutorial is exactly what you need to do, although it doesn't explain how to modify the background image, and in my explanation, the original BMP is saved with the PgcEdit preview instead of VobBlanker.

You should do something like that (but with a better look! )


Note that I have created the buttons in two rows, because there is not enough room to put them in one single column.

[rdkapp]

Note that I have created the buttons in two rows, because there is not enough room to put them in one single column.

That looks perfect to me, but how did you get the chapter numbers there, and how did you get the background, behind the numbers, to look exactly like the rest of the menu background?

Just messing around, here's what I've done:



I like yours much better. In fact, I'd like to have something like yours in my reauthored DVD. The only change I might want is to color the chapter numbers a little differently, but I don't think that's a big deal. Did you use your image editor (Paint Shop Pro) to put the chapter numbers in as your new button backgrounds? How did you do it?

[r0lZ]

You have to look at pages 4 to 7 to know the chapter numbers. Since page 4 is the first page of side 2 and side 2 begins at chapter 12, chapters 12 to 15 are in that page. In the next page, there are 4 chapters also (16 to 19), the next page has only 3 chapters (20 to 23) and the last page has the last 2 chapters.

I have used the Text tool of PaintShop Pro, using a font similar to the one in the original background. I have intentionally used a light color, so that you can easily see the button backgrounds. Anyway, you can certainly dray text with Photoshop.

[rdkapp]

r0lZ, I've got it now. Here's one of my menu backgrounds:



But a question has arisen when I got to Menu Cell 4 (the 1st menu on disc 2). Here's a picture:



The question involves that last button (Chapters 12-13). My reauthored DVD has Chapters 12-15 on the same menu page, so I somehow have to change the 13 to a 15, or just replace the image (12-13), with 12-15. Now I figured out how to blank the 12-13, as shown in the following picture:



And I was going to place the new buttons in 2 x 2 columns/rows just like you did and I did (shown above in the 1st picture). However, there is still a button in the menu where 12-13 was before. Can I just move that button (in PgcEdit) to where the new 12-15 button is/will be? Or, will that mess something up?

I've finally mastered (I use that term loosely) Photoshop and I don't want to mess something up before asking. Obviously, I've now learned how to change the permanent (non-activated) chapter numbers next to the thumbnail scenes in the menu backgrounds. Is there anything I should know before I start messing with those?

[spyhawk]

Just for fun - how 'bout this first menu - the added numbers are obtained from this menu and other menus.



Just a thought, with the way you modify the backgrounds right now, to make it look a little more "professional", you have to change every chapter numbers in the scene selection graphic area and the chapter text descriptions for cells 4-7 (disc 2 menus). IMO, this will take too much work. But, of course, this is optional.

I think it's easier to just clone the chapter numbers (1-13) of disc 2 and put on the same row that you're modifying currently for disc 1 menus, and label "disc 2 chapters" (however you want to name it), and vice versa. Just my 2 cents.