dv capture quality horrible

[jack_glover]

Using firewire D-Link card to download from Sony TRV130.
Tried VEGAS 4 and ULEAD DVD Movie factory, all variations of parameters.
When there is a swift motion in the video ( such as person crossing and blocking the view, then the end result AVI is blurry when compared to SONY connected to TV via AV, .
I compared frame by frame playback on TV and on AVI.
The TV frames are near perfect. Sharp, hardly any trail left by the motion of the person crossing.
The AVI frames show the person in motion leaving a thick trail behind .
When converting to DVD and playing on TV the result of a swift motion is horrible.
When the motion is smooth then the result is acceptable.
I attach the blurry frame.
Suggestions ?

[UncasMS]

try a DEinterlacing option

[jack_glover]

Deinterlacing did not work.
Actually, NO PARAMETERS WHATSOEVER changed anything when I capture in VEGAS 4.
I could not see any difference when viewing the AVI !
I tried 2 differet types of deinterlacing, changed frames per second to half pal, capured while playing in slow - all resulted in the same AVI quality.
I played the camera frame by frame while capturing - the blurry figure is there, BUT NOT when I play frame by frame the TV.
???

[rsquirell]

What is a firewire D-link card? Is it a plug-in PC card that gives you I-link capabilities...or is it some external device you have plugged into your firewire? Does its drivers need updating?

[jack_glover]

Firewire D-link card is a plug-in PC card that gives you I-link capabilities.
Did not come with any drivers of it's own.
W2K SP3 installed Microsoft's 1394 2 drivers
1394bus.sys version 5.00.2195.3649
ohci1394.sys version 5.00.2195.5200
I never captured DV before and I do not know if the blurry white as shown in my jpg is the way it is supposed to be or is it my equipment/software/parameters ?
What worries me as well is that changing parameters does not show any noticeable change in the result !

[rsquirell]

While viewing a capture while it's occuring you usually see blurry and/or horizontal black streak artifacts during fast motion scenes which are lessened when viewing the capture file later. This is usually eliminated if the capture file is rendered. You say you see the blur on a finished DVD. You might try rendering the file in TMPGenc to make it a DVD MPEG2 and see if the streaks/blur goes away. TMPGenc won't step on your DV quality...much. You might also download a trial of ULead Video Studio 7 and try a capture with it. Both products give you a 30 day trial. VS7 allows you to "smart render" which only compresses what really needs to be compressed...giving you close to DV quality throughout. I believe to render using VS7 you may need to specify bottom field first, but in capture your DV will be converted to MPEG2 on the fly.

[jack_glover]

Thanks,
I'm aware of what you are talking about. I tried TMPenc on a 10sec clip containg the blur AVI, not much change
I will try Video Studio 7.

However, please look again at the jpg and give me an expert advice on my capture results: Is there something wrong, or is it to be expected for quick motion?
The JPG shows what I see during CAPTURE when I step frame by frame, and of course it goes down to the AVI.
If I compare frame by frame during CAPTURE to frame by frame during PLAYING the original on TV, then the TV play is by far superior. Which tells me that the capture is a lossy process.
But to what degree ? Are there standards to say what is the limit to a video motion?
Many thanks.
JG

[setarip]

"I tried TMPenc on a 10sec clip containg the blur AVI, not much change"

From under TMPGEnc's "Advanced" tab, did you try applying the "Ghost Reduction" filter?

[rsquirell]

you might also try a short (3 ft max) gold firewire cable. There's a lot of loss in wires. And even though you've used ULead's DVD Movie Factory try a trial version of their VS7 for capturing the DV. Ghosting isn't normal in the finished MPEG...so if we can correct the problem in the capture we can save the time of a long render.

[jack_glover]

Thanks Setarip and Rsquirell,
I have tried video studio 7 trial, no change.
I will try ghost reduction as it may be applicable fix. however it does not eliminate the problem at source.
I will try connecting my camcorder to another computer, to check infrastructure hardware / software influence.
I am still puzzled as to the basic problem:
SHOULD DV CAPTURE WHEN PLAYED FRAME BY FRAME LOOK IDENTICAL TO FRAME BY FRAME ON TV, and if not, then what is considered acceptable and what isn't?

[setarip]

"Thanks Setarip and Rsquirell"

My (Our) pleasure ;>}

Although it's only a possible after-the-fact solution, do let us know if the Ghost Reduction improves your results...

[rsquirell]

It is my theory that you aren't getting a lossless capture. Gold wires aren't that expensive...and there's a lot of loss in wires. Try replacing the cheap firewire cable that came with your camera with a short (3' max) gold one.

[Sqirry]

I fully understand the problem of Jack struggling with the same effects since a while. I always get blurry and horizontal black streak artifacts when I import from my Sony TVR-15 via Terratec Firewire card into the PC (Athlon 2400+, 256MB Ram, 100Gb Hdisk, Win XP pro).
It gets a bit better when I render it as PAL DVD but still is far away from the quality of the original on the cam.
Two other problems occured recently. Adding an analog TV-Card to the PC leads to a drift of the audio track away from the movie.
Again I only use the firewire not the sound card input. I guess it is some sort of interrupt problem.
Secondly trying to capture via Ulead 6.5 pro or Virtual Dub leads to an error message: No driver found or driver already in use. Movie Maker work fine instead. What driver is is speaking about?
I'm really at the end of my latin nedding some outside help.

By the way: Firewire is a digital protocoll and the loss due to resistance in the wire should be managed by the failure detection and correction of the protocoll. Has anyone experience with cables and can suggest some?

[rsquirell]

There's a good deal of loss in cables and wires...and it occurs before it gets to your firewire protocol.. Go GOLD! Since you're using ULead VS6.5 (and not the latest VS7) you should visit the ULead site and look at all the updates they have to make VS6 compatible.You'll probably find your driver there.

[Sqirry]

Thanks for the good hints. I'll try the cable and change to a new Ulead.

Sqirry