aspect ratio and capacity questions...

[horseman]

Hi Folks.
I just read another thread here that describes what I want, but
the motive is different - I also want to convert WS and LB format
DVD's to FS, but only because I REALLY hate those formats.

That having been said, I am also spoiled, DVDShrink is truly mana
from the Gods - a few clicks, a little wait -BING!- backup's done !!!

So, my 2 questions:
1.
Is there an equally simple way to change the aspect ratio to 4:3
and just have it done and burned with a few clicks ? (I have seen
mention of autogordianknot, but it seems very complex to use.)

2.
I am going to somehow capture some of my VHS tapes to the PC,
and burn the files to DVD - is there a chart someplace of the times
vs. capacity of a DVD+R ?
I literally have no idea how much (show) time can be fit on one
DVD+R - of course I know 2 hour movies fit because I back them
up with DVDShrink all the time...

Thanks !

mark

[ignignot]

In answer to question 1:

DVD Shrink has no function to change aspect ratios, that would most likely require complete re-encoding of the video with a tool such as TMPGEnc, or it might be possible to use a program to frameserve the altered video on the fly to Shrink. Also, I would reccomend not trying to change a 16:9 aspect to 4:3 as that would entail either screwing up the ratio, or losing a portion of the picture.

question 2:

Due to the fact that the video on a DVD is encoded using a variable bitrate, the length of time you can fit is not set - films with lots of motion etc. may be limited to 2hrs or less (without severe loss of quality), and movies without may be double that and appear perfect.

[horseman]

clarification....

Thanks for the reply.

To the first I add:
Of course it will cut off some picture -
I don't care about that, I want it to
fit -correctly- on my TV screen - and I
also don't give a hoot what the blinkin
director or producer wanted me to see.
(I only have room for a TV, and that is
what I watch it on, I have neither room
nor cash for a WS rig, and that's that.)

I know DVDShrink doesn't do it, but I
am hoping the wiser minds here know
a very cool trick I would never be able
to get except to ask for it here !!

Capacity-wise:
I will be playing my VHS into a
capture card, encoding it somehow,
and then burning to DVD+R.
I am hoping for a range or some
kind of estimate - unless 2-4 hours
is the closest it can be estimated, in
which case I repeat my thanks.

Good Night World !

mark

[ignignot]

"I will be playing my VHS into a
capture card, encoding it somehow,
and then burning to DVD+R.
I am hoping for a range or some
kind of estimate"

When capturing from a VCR the maximum useful resolution you're gonna get is going to be around that of a VCD (352x240 for NTSC or 352x288 for PAL) It may be possible to capture at a higher resolution, but it would essentially be useless. At that resolution, and assuming you're using CBR (constant bitrate encoding) at 1150kbps (standard VCD) this equates to ~10 MB per MIN:

4474 / 10 = 447.4 min / 60 = 7.45 hrs.

however, you'll probably want to use a sort of VBR encoding, and an avg. bitrate of approx. twice that. If you use TMPGEnc (www.tmpgenc.net) it has an option for 2-pass VBR encoding which will guarantee the output size you would expect, but the quality is inferior to CQ modes (the way commercial DVDs are encoded) anyways, let's assume you encode 2-pass with an average of 2300kbps (which should be more than adequate at a resolution of 352x240/288) then you will get exactly 1/2 that so:

7.45 hrs / 2 = 3.725 hrs

TMGPGEnc will also trim your picture size, but I would especially reccomend against this when capturing from VHS as you will lose much needed resolution, resulting in even worse picture quality. I used to always make VCDs this way thinking along the same lines as you, but I always kicked myself for it later because you inevitably end up with text that you can't read, and characters/important action occuring on the edges that gets completely cut out. However if you insist on doing this, make sure you select the "No Margin - Preserve aspect ratio" option in TMPGEnc.

hope that answers your question!

[horseman]

Very helpful and informative, Thanks !

Originally posted by ignignot

TMGPGEnc will also trim your picture size, but I would especially reccomend against this when capturing from VHS as you will lose much needed resolution, resulting in even worse picture quality. I used to always make VCDs this way thinking along the same lines as you, but I always kicked myself for it later because you inevitably end up with text that you can't read, and characters/important action occuring on the edges that gets completely cut out. However if you insist on doing this, make sure you select the "No Margin - Preserve aspect ratio" option in TMPGEnc.

Thanks Ignignot.
One remaining question regarding the above - please clarify how
NOT to have the picture size trimmed - would I NOT select the
'no margin-preserve aspect ratio' option ?
Obviously I would want the better picture/resolution from the
VHS source...

mark

[ignignot]

If you want to trim of the sides of the picture to remove the black borders from a widescreen then "No Margins - keep aspect ratio" is the correct setting.

If you want to keep the black borders, select "Full Screen - keep aspect ratio"

The one selection you definately don't want to choose is simply "Full Screen" as this will verically stretch the picture, and it looks like utter crap.

"Obviously I would want the better picture/resolution from the
VHS source..."

Therein lies the problem: if you capture at 352x240. When you trim the picture you lose some of that resolution and then zoom in, so there's a two-fold quality loss when you do that (and the resolution is pretty low to begin with.)

[horseman]

I think I am following you.....but the VHS stuff is taped from
TV shows that are already FS - so why would I make any
choices to adjust from WS ??

(My original 1st question was aimed at converting DVDs
from WS/LB to FS when 'backing up'....the 2nd question
was about transferring FS VHS to DVD...)

Thanks,

mark

[ignignot]

Oh i'm sorry, i misunderstood you, didn't realize that's what you meant by WS/FS. If your source is already full screen then simply pick "Full screen - keep aspect ratio" and you should have no problem.

If you want to change a WS DVD to a full screen one you'll also need a program called DVD2AVI that works in conjunction with TMPGEnc - however, depending on the speed of your computer it will take ~1hr for the DVD2AVI step, then ~10+ hours for the encode with tmpgenc, then you'll have to author a new DVD (losing the original menus etc.)

IMO this is a pretty big undertaking just to get fullscreen.

[horseman]

OK, now we are in synch, and I fully agree that the WS to
FS conversion by these methods is an extravagance, so I
will likely just skip it unless it becomes easy and quick....

My DVD player has a 'zoom' button that makes WS movies
fill the screen - the cutoff is fairly obvious when credits are
scrolling and such - but it leaves me with a question:
Is there any way to know how much loss there is with
the 'zoom' as opposed to reformatting a DVD from WS to
FS ?
Using capture, and knowing there would be loss, I could
easily play the DVD and capture it to get the same effect,
as long as the loss isn't too different....

Thanks for sharing your greater knowledge !

mark

[ignignot]

Using that zoom function is probably the way to go, that way you still have the option of watching it in widescreen mode. Essentially, re-encoding to fullscreen will do the same thing which is to zoom in on a particular part of the frame.

I wouldn't recommend capturing DVD video as this is going from digital to analog, and back to digital again. This will take a long time as well, and no doubt result in signigcant quality loss. I always consider capturing to be about the last resort.

Also, if you're trying to capture from a commercial DVD you're gonna run into Macrovision copy protection which causes the picture to distort and alternate between oversaturated colors and black & white (same thing happens if you try to tape a DVD.)

[Tigerman]

Aspect Ratio

I have read this particular thread with great interest in that I would like to accomplish the same thing. First, I found the suggestion to use the zoom feature on my standalone DVD useful, however, I believe I have discovered an even better solution, since you really lose a lot of the picture when you zoom in.

The solution is to use Nero Recode 2 to encode the dvd to their mp4 format. Although this format will not work in your standalone DVD player, one of the editing features included allows you to resize the display area, thus removing those annoying black bars and then to stretch the picture to the 4:3 ratio your TV uses.

Although this new DVD in mp4 format will play correctly on your pc, it won't on your standalone DVD player. However, if you can hook your TV to your computer (I use a device called the TVator), you can then play the corrected dvd on your tv and use a standalone dvd recorder hooked to your tv to burn you a new dvd with the correct aspect ratios.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you find a better way.

[ignignot]

You can use Tmpgenc to do the same thing and the output will be DVD Compatible (assuming you author it properly). However, as I mentioned before, you're going to be stretching the picture vertically. I don't know about you, but this looks absolutely awful because as you stretch vertically you squish hortizontally. If you're doing this with a 2.35:1 source it is unwatchable in my opinion, and if the source is 1.85:1 then it is still very noticable.

[horseman]

Some makers are now putting out players with a function
that goes beyond the 'zoom' - such as Toshiba with their
EZView button - I have tried it, and it is worth playing with,
so I think I will quit battling with the WS/LB formats, and
have faith that the player makers are aware that a great
many more folks HATE those black bars than the movie
makers are willing to admit.
(I for one am quite tired of hearing folks say that 'most
people -prefer- WS/LB formats - BULLSH!T !!)

Aside of that, I have been using DVDShrink very easily
and successfully on me old w98/1300 box to make nice
'backups' of whatever I want, for some time now.
Just a few clicks, and an hour or so later I remove a
nice fresh backup that we can beat all we want while
the original does what originals should do !!!
(macro is gone, region coding too, Yippee !)

Best Wishes,

mark

[Tigerman]

Aspect Ratios

Thanks guys for your prompt and thoughtful replys. I really appreciate it. Just to let you know, the Nero recode resizing does a really great job of changing the aspect ratios without any noticeable effect on the quality of the display. Thats why I wish I could simply burn the mp4 on a dvd and pop it into my player. In any case, I understand that it may not be long before standalones will play mp4s. Lastly, if anyone knows of any free or shareware that can resize an avi properly, please let me know. Thanks again

[ignignot]

the Nero recode resizing does a really great job of changing the aspect ratios without any noticeable effect on the quality of the display.

With all due respect, this isn't possible. It's either going to have to trim off the picture or it's going to have to stretch/squish. It's not possible to go from WS to FS without doing one of the two, hence the message they show prior to movies on TV (This has been modified to fit your screen) The difference is they have people who analyze the entire movie shot by shot and pick out a 4:3 box that contains the pertinent action and/or information.

Thats why I wish I could simply burn the mp4 on a dvd and pop it into my player.

While your standalone might not play the MPEG-4 format video (there are some that will btw) you could very easily convert it back into MPEG-2, then author and burn it back to a DVD. However, this is a very tedious process, and I guarantee you that your video is being altered in one of the ways I mentioned above. If this is the case, the MPEG-4 stage would be completely unnecessary.

Would it be possible for you to post some screen grabs of the original video and the video after it has been resized by Nero Recode?

Lastly, if anyone knows of any free or shareware that can resize an avi properly, please let me know. Thanks again

I would Recommend VirtualDub - it can do this and just about anything else you can think of.