.WMV vs .MPEG4 for home movie storage

[Achilles_wf]

OK, I've got 15 1 hour DV tapes that I want to backup to a more permanent storage medium (i.e. DVD), with the express goal of maximizing my ability to LATER convert them to compliant mpeg2 format (.m2v and .ac3 format) for authoring onto playable DVDs.

I've also got about 50 2 hour Hi-8 tapes that I can stream through my DV camcorder and capture as another 100 hours of DV.

I don't really want to make playable DVDs out of each video at this point, just get them stored. But I don't want to convert them to a format that will be problematic for eventually turning into compliant DVD files and authoring discs down the road.

Currently, it seems like my best choices would be .WMV9 or MPEG4. I'd like to know which would be best, given that:

1) Later I want to be able to get the files off the storage DVDs and convert to other formats (i.e. .MPEG2 or .m2v + .ac3) for playback on standard DVD players.

2) I want to minimize loss of quality due to my double conversion process.

3) I want to be able to find plenty of free or pay SW to turn my stored files into playable DVD when I decide to do that some time in the future.

Having said all that...what would be my best choice for storing off my DV source material?

Don't say to just leave them on the tapes because, for instance, I've seen Hi-8 casettes degrade in 10 years of sitting around, and some of my video is getting to be about that old.

If possible I'd like to get at least 2 hours on each DVD (remember I want as high a quality as possible) so that I don't have to split up my Hi-8 sources onto multiple discs.

Some additional notes:

If I store off giant .WMV or MPEG4 files on DVD now, will it be a problem to later make DVD compliant video and audio files out of them since presumably the reduced compression would make the converted data too large for playable DVD?

Will .WMV format become supported on set-top DVD players so that perhaps I can avoid further compression later when I want to make DVD's (let's say by 5 years from now)? What about MPEG4?

Is MPEG4 the same as DivX?

Will I always have to author DVD's by converting to the separate, strange, video and audio files required for authoring a playable disc? Will set-top players ever just be able to have a DVD with a single giant .WMV, MPEG4 or even MPEG2 file inserted and just start playing it properly?

With around 150 hours of DV video to store (and later encode and author / burn), am I going to wear out my poor little laptop? Its a Dell 3.2G P4 with Win XP and plenty of RAM and HD space.

Thanks for any info that anyone might provide!!

[Too-Cool]

What program(s) are you using to get the DV from Camera to Hard Disk. I'm trying to find out how to do just that and then copy to a playable DVD. I have a Panasonic DV cam and I'm currently using the software that came with the camera but it will only capture 30 seconds at a time before transferring to hard drive and that's about a 1 to 50 ratio, for every one-second of capture, 50 seconds to transfer to HD at that rate it will take forever just to do one tape.

Thanks Too-Cool

PS, I tried to use NeroVision Express-2 SE and Windows XP Media Player but neither can find a DV device, I think I need the full versions to make them work or I just don't know what I'm doing, the latter is probably the case.

[Achilles_wf]

I use winDV to capture from my camera. It's free and I like it, but there are many others. Essentially, you want to capture to DV-AVI type 2, and then do your conversions from there. I use a Panasonic camcorder myself (PV-953) and so far capturing the video from it has been the least of the worries (btw I use a firewire not the USB it came with).

[guada]

Good evening,

You will excuse me for the translation but I am anxious to give you my opinion concerning compression video.

It is difficult to answer you.
the wmv is a codec of high quality, the mpeg4 is a range very enriched, and the mpeg-2 is the best..

For my part, in DV, I use VDM and huffyuv for the analogical capture and cce 2.70 pro for the encoding in mpeg2.
For more infos look at the site of Doom9

To come back to your questioning, wmv is a codec of a high level for low bitrates and high bitrates (wvm hd).
The mpeg-4 is an alternative (it is my opinion).
Nevertheless, the VSS HS 264 that are a codec mpeg-4 are out contest for these capacities out norms.

If you must make a choice, I think that you won't be disappointed of the quality gotten with the wmv.
for info, use the WMEnc 0.99 beta of Nic.
Besides, for a choice more convivial and more widespread the mpeg4 (out vss hs 264) will make the business.
for it, use VDM and the Xvid codec devapi 3 (for low bitrates) or the last version in HD (520p,720p).

To soon

[Achilles_wf]

Thank you for your response. I see that English is not your native language, and I appreciate the effort you put into replying to me.

You are suggesting that I can use WMV9 format to store my DV video best for later transcoding to MPEG2s for authoring playable DVDs?

Does everyone agree with this? What about any issues as I mentioned with when I want to go and actually make compliant MPEG2 content from the material...will I ever be able to get as good of video quality as I would if I was to somehow be able to preserve the DV or DV-AVI and encode from there? Or at least close?

Note that I'll save off the audio as .ac3 right now and keep it with the WMV9 files so that I can just transcode the video later when I want to make DVDs for playing on set-top boxes.

So, I have one vote for WMV9. Anyone else care to weigh in on the concept of the best overall storage format given an eventual goal of producing playable DVDs from that content?

Thanks!

[guada]

Hello,

It's me again, why would you make the transfer direct DV to MPEG-2 .
Instead of conducting the format mpeg-2 subsequently.
I would like to understand your strategy

Other question which encoder mpeg-2 do you use?

[Achilles_wf]

I don't to direct DV to MPEG2. I capture DV-AVI from my camcorder (via FireWire) which is essentially a pure uncompressed version of my DV content. Then I encode that to something (MPEG2 if I am going to make a playable DVD, or something else (the original purpose of this post)) if archiving.

I use TMPEnc to encode currently or QuEnc, WME9 if I am making a WMV file.

[guada]

Ok, I understand.

Say me, make you a script with Fitcd 1.2.2 or avisynth 2.53 RC3 Bêta 2, to improve your file of exit to the format mpeg-2 (storage).

it is necessary to say that I use only cce 2.67 with eclce or cce 2.70 pro for storage.

What version of Quenc loves the one of Nic (the version 0.51) or of "Dragonnaz" (the version 0.53) ?

[shulthise]

My experience:

Hey Achilles_wf.-
I'm no Video/DVD wiz, but I encountered the same problem and I think I'm a little a head of you on this.
Here’s my contribution (What I THINK I know):

Taking videos off tapes to DVD ?
I think you’re doing wisely, taking your videos off the tapes and onto DVD media. This way it’s easy to backup, it’s better preserved, it’s more accessible (no “what tape it’s on?” or rewind/forward for a scene) and DVDs are, of course, distributable (send to family/friends/lover).
However – This is still a lot of time consuming work, and you’ll need to buy a lot of DVDR media...

WMV vs MPEG4 vs DivX ?
I think WMV is some kind of a Microsoft version of MPEG4 (MS always changes something to call it “ours”).. not sure. I never used a MPEG4 encoder.

Preserve Quality while converting from DV ?
No matter what compression, method and format you’re using, you’re always going to lose quality. But if you use Mpeg2, Mpeg4, or WMV then it’s not visible on TV devices. If you do it right you notice the difference between the original DV and the compressed file only if you stick your nose to the computer monitor.

Windows Media Encoder 9
I used Windows Media Encoder v9 to encode some of my Videos. I used a range of 6000 to 8000 var bitrate. The Quality was great!
With that bitrate the file size was reduced to about 30%-35% of the original file size (13GB! For 1 hour of NTSC DV), so I could back it up to DVDs media.
However, there are dome downsides:
- I never hear of a DVD player that plays a WMV file. So you can’t play the clips from your backup. You’ll have to convert the files to MPEG2 in order to view them on most DVDs – that means quality degradation, and time...
- Not all Video Editing apps support this format, which means, again, convertion.
- The WMEncoder9 allows only a single I frame in each second (while standard DVD mpeg2 uses about 2.).
Some tips for WMEncoder:
- Never De-interlace! It blurs the picture.
- Don’t forget to set the correct the display ration before encoding (by default it’s 1:1)

Mpeg2 ?
I now convert my DV to Mpeg2 (DVD compliant).
I think this is the best alternative format for DV.
It preserves the High quality, it can be played on most DVD players directly from the unedited backups.
With optimizations the file size can make better size-to-quality ratio (i think better that WMV).
Plus - I figure (never tried it) you can later edit the movie without further conversions and compressions (that will reduce quality). A good video editing program should do it’s best not to recompress a video that is in the right format (just compress the frames from the last effect/change to the next unchanged I frame)


Again.. i'm not video/DVD wiz, but I think I got the optimal solution for my videos... and i think it's the right one for you too.

Cheers

[guada]

Hello shulthise,

The mpeg-2 is without dispute the best method of conversion that keeps the highest quality.
Besides, the WMV prmit to get a picture of good quality especially in HD: clarity and definition and gain of place.
Did you already think about to make an oversize (520p to 720p) with Quenc 0.54 (last version of Dragongodz)?
It is extra..
With CCE 2.70 pro it is bluffing

Note: the WMA file must passed the 256 kbps imperatively otherwise he is bad quality by report has the audio ogg.

To soon

[shulthise]

Hey guada,

I never used the WMEncoder built in presets.
I’ve used WMEncoder to encode 720x480 NTSC videos to the same resolution, x-y ratio, with 6000-8000 bitrate, and 384 kbps for audio.

I had to play with the application’s parameters a lot in order to create my costume settings, because it didn’t come with the presets i needed.

MS didn’t make it easy for the user though… you have to read a lot before you know where and how to “Allow nonsquare pixel output“ before you can change the ratio, or know how to set the original file size (by default it tries to deform the file resolution), change the bitrate.. or learn that Key frames are actually I frames.

But once I was done with the tests the result was good.

[guada]

Hey Shulthise,

To begin that is always well, but to finish that is even better.
I have start as you by reading and I believe that one is there again.
To less that, you didn't finish your growth. But I am dubitative, since your explanations are of a good level.

I think that it would be useful to know itself, before can instruct prematurely.
Because my goal is to serve to best the interest of each.
Me also, I have knowledge in the HDTV contrary to your commentary.
Even though it can appear you strange.
As says the byword: mistrust the water that sleeps. it is not because I don't go in the details that my knowledge are limited.
To say truly, the true problem doesn't come from WMEncoder but of the scripts.
It is not a thin business, since it identifies as the platform and the balance of returned it of the final file.

Don't forget never this, the important doesn't exist alone there the fact is.

[RNCSerge]

Just encode with WMV9. Later on, as DVD players will support this format, you'll avoid the need to re-encode to MPEG-2, and WMV9 is of quite high quality.
Also, if you don't want to wait a few years, encode to a MPEG4 codec (Divx/Xvid/3ivx). Quality almost as good as WMV9 (and certainly better than MPEG2), and a few DVD players already support MPEG4.

[guada]

Good evening,

I appreciate your speech indeed.
But one of your sentences challenges me (certainly better than mpeg2).
If you think about AVC H264, indeed it is true.
But with regard to the Xvid HD 720p on a DVD disk (4.3 Go), it is not again it. although it provides an incredible quality
Nevertheless, it decorated likely with a Xvid HD 9.4GB.
I didn't make the experience again, but I think that it is already the high level of compression.

To very soon RNCSerge

[zx50]

Does anybody know what encoder i need to encode with WMP9 codec, and can i go straight from VOB to avi.