Test your IQ

[ormonde]

"Those Al Qaida pilots had simulator time in the type airliners they intended to hijack...and since they weren't planning to takeoff or land all they needed to know was where the buttons on this particular model were"

But is it a difficult thing to do to manually navigate to a particular destination. (Did they actually do that?) We all assume that the assigned pilots were already dead by the time the terrorists took control. Even if they were intimately familiar with certain details of the plane, they not only had to fly it, but hit their targets dead on. I would think that the slightest wrong maneuvering would result in them missing their intended targets.

[rsquirell]

I picked up a loran for my personal airplane in the mid 80's when I planned to take a trip to the Yucatan. I'd be flying an ADF airway close to Cuba...and wanted to be sure to be in the centerline and not violate Cuban airspace. From CanCun a couple of days later I took off heading inland to ChitzaNitza (sp?) to check out the Mayan temples. I had to stay below a 2000foot ceiling...and was way out of range to pick up the VOR signals...but I had programmed the loran with the coordinates...and it gave me a centerline to navigate on...and told me exactly how far awaay it was. There was a road to ChitzanItza...but it was covered by the jungle canopy...and there are no rivers on the surface in the Yucatan...the water water seeps down thru the limestone and forms underground rivers. Every once and a while the roof of a river would cave in forming a sink hole and the Mayans would build their cities around the water source. From the air the Yucatan looks like a big green sea...with no landmarks. When the loran said i was 5 miles away i looked up and saw a white pyramid marching toward me. GPS does the same thing...and they are cheap enough for general aviation aircraft. They even have GPS approaches and moving map displays...and you can file GPS Instrument flight plans off airways. The pilots would have been well versed in how to do all of this. All they needed to know was where the GPS was, how to turn off the autopilot, and where the trim tab button on the control yoke was.

[rsquirell]

Before 9/11 Airline pilots had been instructed not to resist hijackers...nobody had been killed by hijackers since that 1983 Beirut hijack where a couple of Navy divers were killed. The concensus was don't struggle...take them where they wanted to go,,,save the airplane and the passengers. 9/11 changed all that. The biggest reason it won't happened again is that now the cockpit doors are locked...and anything that happens in the passenger compartment will be ignored until the bird is on the ground and invaded by a swat team. Current airport screening procedures wouldn't have stopped the 9/11 guys...they were trained at Salmon Pak ( a facility just outside Bagdad) at how to take over an aircraft without weapons (they used razor blades...and relied on procedures (which they knew) that called for going along with the attackers...that will never happen again....everybody now knows if the hijack is successful all will die anyway...and they'll put up a fight for your life struggle.

[ormonde]

"The biggest reason it won't happened again is that now the cockpit doors are locked"

Have they implemented that across the board? I thought that had only partially been done. And what about the pilots being trained in the use of firearms? I have mixed feelings about that.

[rsquirell]

Yes...the cockpit doors are now reinforced and secured with bars. Some pilots are resisting sidearms...and some started wearing them long before they became legal. Wanna try your luck and guess whether this guy has one or not? One good thing about living in a legal carry state is nobody knows whos armed...and the crime rate drops...just because the potential exists.

[rsquirell]

Oh...and most pilots are just like me...I was trained in firearms when I was 10.

[ormonde]

"One good thing about living in a legal carry state is nobody knows whos armed...and the crime rate drops...just because the potential exists."

I've always believed that if everybody were armed, crime would almost be nil. The problem seems to be in this country is that the "Fear" of crime is off the charts. The U.S. does not have a crime rate that is that much different from any other industrial nation. (It’s at the high end, but not off the spectrum). It's that fear of crime that is unique here. I was in Canada recently and almost nobody there locks his or her doors. There is both a "Paranoia" and "Fascination" at the same time with guns in the U.S.

[rsquirell]

That's the attitude that exists in most small American towns, today, where everybody knows their neighbors. There's a different attitude and a whole different country...once you get out of the big cities...but in the city, where it's impossible to know your neighbors, paranoia is a way of life. You become sceptical and distrustful of others...which is good when you're into self-preservation. But once you leave the city limits you enter into the "real" america...a land that hasn't lost hope.

[rsquirell]

We have an audience so let's bring everyone up to speed to where we're at http://forum.digital-digest.com/show...threadid=33256 Ormonde...read the thread we're on and the rest of the war story and let me know when you're ready to start. My basic premise is Kerry can't win because he's an "elitist" carrying the "populist" banner...you've got the wrong boy. Also...nobody's won by screaming the "populist" slogans since the total dispair of the depression. All of the "populist" democrats won by claiming to be for business and defending our shores. I can certainly understand why you think all politicians lie since a "true believer" on your side has to live a lie in order to get elected. You guys are toast this year.

[ormonde]

Where's Quality at...........did he take a hike?

[rsquirell]

he may have...maybe someone else can jump in and take his place...all are welcome.

[ormonde]

"All of the "populist" democrats won by claiming to be for business and defending our shores."

Well, I've always thought of Bill Clinton as a "Moderate Republican" (a friend of big business). I mean when he gave his speech in Seattle at the Boeing hanger and said "this is the model for a free market economy" (What!! Boeing!!) Boeing would collapse after one day without a HUDGE public subsidy. If there was a difference between Bill Clinton and Bob Dole in terms of their policies, then I would like to know what it was.

[rsquirell]

Unfortunately there wasn't. Bob Dole demanded a run at the presidency because it was "his turn" and the republicans rolled over and let him. He ran his campaign as "Elizabeth and I are the republican Bill and Hillary"...and they sure were. When Elizabeth Dole was the head of the dept. of transportation she got the FAA to place severe restirctions on airspace by creating TSA's TRAA's, and increasing restricted areas...she (and bob) are just as big socialists as bill and hillary...and since they're republicans (the only party that gives libertarians a chance to take back the country and the constitution) if they were elected there would be no way to get them out...no alternatives for the next election. The republican base stayed home. There are other socialists republican senators...remember that Arlan Spector clown who was citing Scottish Law during impeachment? John McCain announced yesterday he would consider running as Kerry's VP...he's been working with Kerry quashing POW/MIA searches and sealing records regarding conduct of some soldiers (namely themselves) during Viet Nam. http://aiipowmia.com/sea/schanberg_mccain.html When McCain was running for president against bush, the POW/MIA groups stepped up to get the word out on him and cited numerous accounts from fellow prisoners on how he was a snitch in order to receive favorable treatment from the NVA. Some actually accused him of turning some guys in who were tortured and murdered. But since the threat of a McCain presidency is a distant prospect...and since they have to deal with him to try to get information on their loved ones, the vitriolic links have disappeared off their sites.

[ormonde]

That gets back to the issue that the Democrats are not really set apart. If Kerry did win, I think for the most part, it would be "Business as Usual" in Washington. He can't beat Bush in terms of funding, so he would have to make some serious concessions to corporate business lobbyists in order to get real support. But all those guys are firmly in the Bush camp. Getting back to the point you raised a few posts back which is, that the "Real" America exists out of the "City Limit". I think Bush could be vulnerable in middle America. That is where most of the jobs have been shed, and they are not happy about it. (e.g. Bush in Cleveland attacking the Dems). Kerry had an off-mic blunder ("these guys are the most crooked, you know, lying group I've ever seen") well, as the old saying goes "If The Shoe Fits". The fact is they all lie on both sides.

[rsquirell]

Business as usual is the reason your base will stay home. Bush is in trouble in middle america for "compationate conservativism" and his "triangulation" by sponsoring the Medicare prescription drug plan, the education bill and all the other democrat pet projects...but they'll be out in droves this year, because the prospect of losing (or giving up on) the war on terror is abhorrent to his base...and that alone will drive them to the polls. Speaking of McCain...lets talk about the "War Heroes" in the Senate...starting with that other Kerry....Bob Kerrey (D/Ne.). You read my intro and now know that NCO's led special ops teams..and officers wrote up their own after-action reports and put themselves in for medals. Lt. Kerrey was an observer on a Seal team that assaulted an island in the Mekong Delta and participated in an assault on a village where intel said a big meeting of VC heads was to take place. The only people they found were a bunch of women and children...the VC had split. Lt Kerrey ordered them all to be shot so they couldn't compromise his position as the team was extracted by boat. He wrote a gallant after-action report where he described himself as the leader of the team and received the Navy Cross. Later...on another Seal team...he won the Congressional Medal of Honor by being the only survivor of a six man Seal team that was compromised and wiped out. Kerrey was wounded in the leg, but survived by crawling under the bodies of the other men and playing dead. Knowing what you now know regarding the lack of training by special ops officers...who do you think was the likely source of the noise that gave away the team's position? The true story of the village massacre would have remained lost to history, if the Team Leader of that Seal team hadn't come forward before the last election, and tell the tale. The TL had been kicking himself all these years for letting that punk-assed medal hound pull rank and take over his team...and he didn't have the guts to step in and stop the atrocity. The other team members said nothing...probably because they were afraid of a My Lai typs war crimes trial...Kerrey was defeated in his bid for reelection. And now...just yesterday...a member of John Kerry's (D/Ma) boat crew stepped up to say John Kerry's account's of war stories is bogus. It'll be interesting to hear what he has to say.