Trying to backup a flipper to DVD+R DL while retaining menus

[r0lZ]

OK, first, you should tick the seamless joint flag on cell 10. It's the original position of the layer break of side 1, and if you leave the flag unticked, a little pause will occur at that place.
Similarly, you should tick the same flag for cell 13, which is the joint point between the two sides. It might however be a good layer break position, so remember that, as you might need the info later when burning the DVD.
Also, you must remove the cell command on cell 12, as your film will end at this point if you leave it!

If you want to clone exactly the behaviour of your original DVD, you should add a new tiny cell at the end of the list. Use "Create New Cell" and append a new blank cell et the end of the PGC. Then, replace the cell command on the previous cell (ie cell 25.) The seamless joint flag must be clear on the tiny cell (cell 26.) As I said, this step is not absolutely necessary, as its only goal is to let the user skip to the end of the film with the remote while the last chapter is playing.

At this point, save and test with a software player. Then, use Shrink to put the whole thing on a DL. Take care: you must leave some space at the end of the DVD (so, do NOT compress using automatic mode), as it is necessary to have some free space to be able to offset the files to align the layer break properly. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to know exactly how much space you have to leave, but I think that around 350 MB should be sufficient. Output the files to a folder, as Shrink is not suitable to produce a DL ISO.

Burn with ImgBurn. If you are lucky, it will propose cell 13 to place the layer break. If it's not the case, you can probably select another cell, or you can also recompress the original DVD with Shrink, but this time, leave a little bit more free space.

[edit] I haven't read the whole guide about ImgBurn, but seems it's what you need.

[r0lZ]

If you want to keep the menu files of side 2 to try to append them later, you should keep VIDEO_T.IFO, VTS_01_0.IFO and VTS_01_0.VOB. PgcEdit can be used to append the menu, but as I said it's really not easy (at least in this particular case.) Begin by learning the DVD structure and the VM commands at DVD Replica. Use also the trace mode of PgcEdit with concrete example to understand how the VM commands work. (For example, with the trace, try to understand why leaving the cell command on cell 12 of your reauthored DVD is really not a good idea.)
When you will think you know enough to do complex tasks, let me know...

[blutach]

May I add one point to an already complex process for beginners?

Adding the tiny cell at the end is useful, but may not always work due to VOB PUOs (they like to force us to watch the credits!!!).

If it doesn't work, use the PUO plugin on the PgcEdit homepage to selectively remove VOB PUops. Leave the defaults as they are.

Regards

[r0lZ]

I guess it's not needed in this case, as the tiny cell is added to the main film, and was present in the original DVD.

[rdkapp]

If you want to clone exactly the behaviour of your original DVD, you should add a new tiny cell at the end of the list. Use "Create New Cell" and append a new blank cell et the end of the PGC. Then, replace the cell command on the previous cell (ie cell 25.) The seamless joint flag must be clear on the tiny cell (cell 26.) As I said, this step is not absolutely necessary, as its only goal is to let the user skip to the end of the film with the remote while the last chapter is playing.

I had some problems with appending a new tiny blank cell. A couple of attempts produced a 15 minute cell at the end with a VOB/Cell ID of 1/1. I knew this wasn't right so I did not save my work. After referring back to an earlier post in this thread on adding a new tiny blank cell (we've covered quite a bit!) I discovered that I needed to tick "Create a new blank VOB Cell" and leave ticked "Rebuild the Time Map of the current Title," which I did. I wasn't sure whether I should rebuild the Time Map, but I recalled that PgcEdit 8.1 beta 2 was created to fix a Time Map bug, so I rebuilt the Time Maps. I hope that wasn't a mistake, because I'm receiving an error that is eerily familiar to an earlier error, just before I had to start completely over.



I have not fixed the PGC Playback Time error (it's only 0.03 seconds), nor have I done any steps after creating the new tiny cell. I'd like to get some direction to make sure I don't screw this up again. Here's my Info --> PGC:

VTST 1 , 1   TTN 1  (2:46:26)  Title 1 - Chapters: 25,  Programs: 25,  Cells: 26 
********** pre commands:
   1  Set gprm(4) =(mov) 50 
   2  if ( gprm(7) >= gprm(4) ) then { (CallSS) Call the VMGM PGC 6, resume cell 1 } 
   3  Set gprm(2) =(mov) 1 
********** post commands:
   1  Set gprm(2) =(mov) 3 
   2  Set gprm(11) =(mov) sprm(1:Audio stream number) 
   3  Set gprm(11) &=(and) 15 
   4  Set gprm(12) =(mov) sprm(2:Sub-picture stream number) 
   5  Set gprm(12) &=(and) 127 
   6  Set gprm(6) =(mov) 6 
   7  (CallSS) Call the VMGM PGC 4, resume cell 1 
********** cell commands:
   1  LinkTailPGC 
 
 Playback time:  02:46:26.03 (at 30 fps)
 PG Playback mode:  sequential
 PUOs:           0 (0x00000000)
 NextPGCN:       1
 PrevPGCN:       1
 GoUpPGCN:       0
 PGC Still Time: 0
 Audio  stream  1 status: 0x00008000 (stream=0)
 Audio  stream  2 status: 0x00008100 (stream=1)
 Audio  stream  3 status: 0x00008200 (stream=2)
 Audio  stream  4 status: 0x00008300 (stream=3)
 Subpic stream  1 status: 0x80000000 (streams for 4:3=0, wide=0, letterbox=0, pan&scan=0)
 Subpic stream  2 status: 0x80010100 (streams for 4:3=0, wide=1, letterbox=1, pan&scan=0)
 BOVs Chap. Prog. Cell  Type  Seam- Ang VOBU  Cell  Cell  Playback     End          Entry    First    Last     Last     VOB Cell
      (PTT)             Flags less      Still Still Cmd.  Time         Time         VOBU     ILVU     VOBU     VOBU     ID  ID
                              Joint           Time  #                               sector   End      Start    End
 ?    1     1     1     2     no    -   no    0     0     00:15:02.18  00:15:02.18  0        0        402360   402581   1   1
 ?    2     2     2     8     yes   -   no    0     0     00:08:30.15  00:23:33.03  402582   0        617494   617726   1   2
 ?    3     3     3     8     yes   -   no    0     0     00:04:05.15  00:27:38.18  617727   0        727713   727932   1   3
 ?    4     4     4     8     yes   -   no    0     0     00:05:36.16  00:33:15.04  727933   0        875493   875664   1   4
 ?    5     5     5     8     yes   -   no    0     0     00:05:23.00  00:38:38.04  875665   0        998911   999119   1   5
 ?    6     6     6     8     yes   -   no    0     0     00:07:15.15  00:45:53.19  999120   0        1178055  1178315  1   6
 ?    7     7     7     8     yes   -   no    0     0     00:06:48.00  00:52:41.19  1178316  0        1361226  1361457  1   7
 ?    8     8     8     8     yes   -   no    0     0     00:08:51.15  01:01:33.04  1361458  0        1591007  1591178  1   8
 ?    9     9     9     8     yes   -   no    0     0     00:02:28.27  01:04:02.01  1591179  0        1653645  1653794  1   9
 ?                10    8     yes   -   no    0     0     00:06:21.29  01:10:24.00  1653795  0        1817352  1817644  1   10
 ?    10    10    11    8     yes   -   no    0     0     00:10:14.00  01:20:38.00  1817645  0        2086441  2086662  1   11
 ?    11    11    12    8     yes   -   no    0     0     00:04:30.28  01:25:08.28  2086663  0        2186270  2186329  1   12
 ?    12    12    13    10    yes   -   no    0     0     00:08:09.20  01:33:18.18  2186330  0        2418600  2418837  2   1
 ?    13    13    14    8     yes   -   no    0     0     00:03:20.00  01:36:38.18  2418838  0        2520039  2520275  2   2
 ?    14    14    15    8     yes   -   no    0     0     00:06:37.00  01:43:15.18  2520276  0        2722507  2722762  2   3
 ?    15    15    16    8     yes   -   no    0     0     00:04:16.15  01:47:32.03  2722763  0        2849986  2850086  2   4
 ?    16    16    17    8     yes   -   no    0     0     00:06:47.15  01:54:19.18  2850087  0        3048051  3048330  2   5
 ?    17    17    18    8     yes   -   no    0     0     00:06:32.27  02:00:52.15  3048331  0        3233732  3233953  2   6
 ?    18    18    19    8     yes   -   no    0     0     00:06:02.00  02:06:54.15  3233954  0        3407114  3407339  2   7
 ?    19    19    20    8     yes   -   no    0     0     00:05:26.00  02:12:20.15  3407340  0        3571875  3572156  2   8
 ?    20    20    21    8     yes   -   no    0     0     00:05:35.28  02:17:56.13  3572157  0        3743783  3744048  2   9
 ?    21    21    22    8     yes   -   no    0     0     00:04:56.00  02:22:52.13  3744049  0        3893282  3893566  2   10
 ?    22    22    23    8     yes   -   no    0     0     00:06:22.00  02:29:14.13  3893567  0        4099157  4099435  2   11
 ?    23    23    24    8     yes   -   no    0     0     00:08:30.15  02:37:44.28  4099436  0        4350021  4350104  2   12
 ?    24    24    25    8     yes   -   no    0     1     00:08:40.17  02:46:25.15  4350105  0        4518749  4518861  2   13
 ?    25    25    26    2     no    -   no    0     0     00:00:00.15  02:46:26.00  4518862  0        4518862  4518866  3   1

r0lZ, please tell me that my movie is still OK. Should I fix the PGC Playback Time error? Should I not have rebuilt the Time Map?

At this point, save and test with a software player.

What software player do your recommend? Do I need something that will play the movie like a DVD, a la Daemon Tools? I also have PowerDVD, but it only plays 1 VOB at a time. What is the reason for the testing?

[blutach]

Say Yes to Fix it.

Good free software players include Media Player Classic and VLC

Regards

[spyhawk]

Interesting thread and I get to learn something new. Just a thought for those wanting to accomplish this task (title thread) using alternative solution beside PgcEdit and VobBlanker, I think DvdReMake Pro would do this job easily.

ok, carry on......

[blutach]

Yes, it does spyhawk (as was mentioned early on) but the OP wanted a freeware solution.

Regards

[spyhawk]

ok, I must've missed the early posts.

Well, IMO, when joining the menus from disc 2 to disc 1, I think DVDRMP would be a better choice. But since freeware solutions are being discussed, I'd like to know how it can be done with minimal efforts, not counting the navigation adjustments.

The probability of doing this again in the future is more than likely.

[r0lZ]

rdkapp, your PGC looks fine. As blutach said, you should accept the fix of the PGC total duration, but it's not that important, as the diff is minimal anyway.

I'm still not sure if the rebuild time map on NTSC material is now bug free, so it's probably a good idea to skip this part, or to do it with VobBlanker. Anyway, adding the last tiny cell in the time map is not necessary, as this cell is not really a part of the film, and should not be played. You don't need to be able to seek to that cell with the remote, right?!

I don't have PowerDVD on my system any more, but IIRC it is able to play a DVD from a folder if you remove the backup folders. It is somewhat picky and needs a regular VIDEO_TS folder, exactly like on a real DVD.
Anyway, I prefer Media Player Classic (MPC), as it's a good versatile player, and it has a neat GUI, not an horrible and unusable skin a la PowerDVD!
You can also use the preview of IfoEdit (Play DVD button) to test your DVD. I use it often, although it's not really a full featured DVD player, as it can give you some clues if something is wrong. You can also easily install it in the Tools menu of PgcEdit. When launched from PgcEdit, it's the fasted way to test-play an edited DVD.

[blutach]

PowerDVD does not mind if you have subfolders (eg backups), nor does Ner0 Showtime, for example.

Regards

[r0lZ]

@spyhawk:
I don't use DRM, but I suppose you think at its Join 2 DVDs to one function. If it's the case, note that it's not what rdkapp wants, as the two parts of the film are not really merged with this method. Anyway, the problem of the chapter menu is the most difficult part, and I suppose DRM cannot do it automatically.


Unfortunately, I cannot explain simply how to merge the original chapter menu of side 2, as the method depends of the way the chapter menu is authored in the original DVD. But here are the basis:


Method 1

Case 1: If the original chapter menu is authored as several PGCs (one for each page of the menu), you have to create a new PGC for each page to import. Then, create a new cell in each PGC with PgcEdit. Be sure to create really a new cell, with a new VOB ID each time.

Case 2: If the original chapter menu is authored as one big PGC with several cells, you have to create several new cells at the end of that menu.

Then, in both cases, replace the new tiny cells with the original menu cells of side 2 with VobBlanker. You will have also to export the menu buttons and colour schemes of the menu of side 2 with PgcEdit, and import them back in the replaced cells, with PgcEdit. In case 1, you have to copy/paste also the colour table of the PGCs.

After that, you have to create new buttons to be able to navigate from the last page of the menu of side 1 to the first page of the menu of side 2, and vice versa. It is possible to do that with PgcEdit only, but your new buttons will look ugly, as their highlights will be simple coloured rectangles over a background, without indication that there is a button. It is possible to edit the background with an image editor and reimport it with VobBlanker, but this method works only if the menu is not animated (but it can have audio.)

Then, you have to fix the navigation commands, and that's another story!


Method 2

Another, completely different method is this one:
Create a new titleset with only one PGC with PgcEdit (by importing a tiny VTS with PgcEdit (and blanking it, as you don't need to play it.) Then, import the original menu of side 2 in this titleset. Remove all unnecessary PGCs from the menu, leaving only the PGCs with the chapter menu pages, and process the menu domain through FixVT to remove the useless cells from the menu VOB.

This method is easier than the first one, because you don't have to import the menu buttons and colour tables, but it is probably more difficult to fix the navigation commands, as you will have to jump from the main menu to the new menu and vice-versa via VMGM dummies. Also, when the user selects a chapter of side 2, you will have to call the right chapter of the film, which is in another VTS. That requires a free GPRM (unless the original authoring uses already a specific GPRM for that usage), and, again, a new dummy PGC in the VMGM.

This second method is my preferred method, because it uses almost only PgcEdit, but of course, you might prefer the first one, if you feel comfortable with the Replace Cell feature of VobBlanker.

[r0lZ]

@rdkapp:
Before Shrinking your DVD with DVDShrink, you might be interested in using MenuShrink. MenuShrink can convert your animated menus to still frame, thus leaving more space on disc for the main film.

Furthermore, you can use MenuShrink also on a copy of your chapter menu of side 2, zip it and include it as DVD-ROM files on your final DVD (or append it at a new dummy titleset as explained in method 2 of my previous post above.) You will have it ready for the next step.

[r0lZ]

PowerDVD does not mind if you have subfolders (eg backups), nor does Ner0 Showtime, for example.

Thanks for the info. I suppose this problem was fixed in a relatively new release.

[blutach]

Version 7 here.

Regards